Unileve

[ampersand]

I've finally started actively working towards eliminating Proctor & Gamble from my lifestyle. Once I decided to do this, I went through my bath products, and yes, a lot of it was P&G (incl. Aussie ... grrrr). A few of my things were from a company Unilever, who markets Dove, Ponds, and other products. I decided to check out their position on animal rights and this is what they had on their website:

"Unilever is committed to the elimination of animal testing for our business. We are equally committed to consumer and customer health and safety and to the safety of our workforce and the environment. In pursuit of these goals, Unilever on the one hand applies the strictest internal control procedures to ensure that animal testing is only carried out when no alternatives are available, and on the other hand invests in developing and applying alternative methods to ensure safety and efficacy. By adopting this dual approach, we advance the elimination of animal testing and reduce the number of tests to the absolute minimum. We provide transparency as to both the use of animals and to the progress in developing alternatives."

(www.unilever.com/environmentsociety/socialissues/animaltesting)

For a little bit of my background, I am not vegan. I am against Proctor and Gamble because of the damming evidence against them and their horrid policy on testing on animals. I realise here too that this company is testing on animals. Yet, they make a point of advocating how they are working towards finding and utilizing alternatives.

My question now is, is this just lip service? How can we be sure that they are working towards these alternatives?

Thoughts and comments are welcome

[VeggiTash]

In my opinion, I think it's just the familair old bull and same old floppy, pathetic 'justifications' for practising something which is outdated, unethical and not required -- not even by law!

Procter and Gamble have several query sections and pages dedicated to trying to convince people what they do helps them -- it only helps their wallets. They just say the same thing that you stated, about 'alternatives' and 'safety'.

Personally, I don't buy it. But at the end of the day do what you feel most comfortable with :) Well done for getting rid of P&G buy the way, that's great!! :D

[VeggieKitten]

It's BS. They're basically talking out of both sides of their mouths.

[kpickell]

That's the same stuff Proctor and Gamble says. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't PeTA say that Unilever is worse than P&G. They just don't have as big of a market share.

Anyways, I think it's great that they're committed to ending animal testing.

[ampersand]

kpickell: really? i tried to get the do/do not test lists from PeTA, but I couldn't download the pdf (it's not my computer, don't feel right about downloading stuff on it)

I'll have to see if I can find out more about it

[MrsKey]

I realise here too that this company is testing on animals. Yet, they make a point of advocating how they are working towards finding and utilizing alternatives.

Given the number of companies who produce and market similar products without any animal testing at all it stands to reason that P&G, Unilever and others could do without animal testing as easily as saying, "We won't do it."

[VeggieKitten]

Given the number of companies who produce and market similar products without any animal testing at all it stands to reason that P&G, Unilever and others could do without animal testing as easily as saying, "We won't do it."

I couldn't have said it better.

[ampersand]

I agree that there are alternatives to these products produced by these corporations. The problems becomes finding ones that are affordable and accessable. I wish I could subsist on purchasing products from the Body Shop, or Jasons, or Kiss my Face, but the sad fact is that i cannot afford it :(

[meatless]

:( I too am working towards eliminating P&G (among others) from my life, but am a little scared by how expensive many of the aternatives are. Today I bought my first non-name brand laundry soap, that is biodegradable, does not test on animals, contains no animal products etc. Fortunately if the package isn't lying about how many loads it will do, it should be just as cheap as the stuff we have been using. I am also planning on dropping any cosmetic brands that test on animals... some of my favorite brands (like Bonne Bell) already don't. I don't know what I can do about shampoo...it took a trial and error of about 15 brands to find one that works well with my insane hair, but it's Thermasilk (Helene Curtis.)
One step at a time I guess....

[Oatmeal]

Hmmm years ago I worked for Unilever as an IT consultant... I don't know if eliminating all products of them is as effective as activism aimed at convincing them to end animal abuse.

I would say the latter is more effective, but I generally won't buy any products with animal ingredients and feel very bad if I know that something was tested on animals so I'll do my best to keep the number of those items down too.

[vegan23]

Nivea (Beiersdorf) are the only big company that i know don't test on animals. Most of their products do contain some animal products,but i only buy the ones that don't. Surely you can find nivea everywhere and they're not expensive, so why don't you try them?

[with_open_eyes]

personally i like to support the smaller companies rather than the HUGE multi-nationals. if i have to buy from them (due to money or availability) then i buy from NIVEA. as vegan23 said, they appear to be one of the only LARGE companies who don't test on animals. ohh and there is WELEDA as well, but i'm not sure how their availability is outside of europe ....

back to unilever though, they are actually a customer of covance (http://www.covancecampaign.com/) - a contract animal testing lab similar to HLS (http://www.insidehls.com).

if you want to know more about the atrocities done at covance, there is thread all about them here (http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=12975)

[VeggieKitten]

..but it's Thermasilk (Helene Curtis.)

Unfortunately, they test on animals too. :(

[meatless]

Unfortunately, they test on animals too. :(

I know, that's why I said it is unfortunate. :cry:
My trial and error time was well before I gave much consideration to these issues, maybe around 10 years ago.

[VeggieKitten]

Well, you are right about "one step at a time". :) I'm still in the process of working some products out of my household, many of which my fiance keeps bringing home. He isn't really aware of who or who doesn't test on animals and never really gave it any thought until I've been trying to educate him since we've moved in together. But anyway, it's certainly a gradual process.

[ampersand]

gradual indeed. i just finished the first of P&G products in my house. i've been able to find hair care prettty easily enough (there's a store chain in CT called Xpect Discounts and I'm able to find some really good shampoos, not for cheap- still about $10 a bottle, but at least a bit more resonable and no animal testing) also, a great shampoo is Mane n' Tail. They don't test on animals, and it's a huuuuuuge bottle for about $5 that lasts me for about a year. The real crunch for me is finding bar soaps, and laundry detergent and cleaning supplies ..

[MrsKey]

I agree that there are alternatives to these products produced by these corporations. The problems becomes finding ones that are affordable and accessable. I wish I could subsist on purchasing products from the Body Shop, or Jasons, or Kiss my Face, but the sad fact is that i cannot afford it :(

True.

Though if we keep bugging them and buying alternatives as often as we reasonably can (which differs for everyone of course) then eventually the biggies will stop doing it as well and the cost of these products will come down.

I know that in my area just 2 years ago I had to go the HFS to get Silk and it was really expensive. Now my local grocery store chain has a section they call "GreenWise" where I can get Silk, Quorn, Amy's Kitchen, Earth Balance ... all at a price comparable or only slightly higher than non-vegetarian versions.

So if we keep at it eventually we can make a change.

But I still believe that if tiny companies can manage to produce these products without animal testing then all it would take for Unilever, P&G and others would be to say, "We're not going to do it."

[ampersand]

would it be worth it to write to the company and say "I encourage the steps you have taken thus far in finding alternatives to animal testing. Please continue your efforts to eliminate animal testing from your practices completely." Would it be effective?

[FalafelsRule]

Regardless of animal testing, if the product includes animal ingredients, they are not vegetarian.

[VeggieKitten]

would it be worth it to write to the company and say "I encourage the steps you have taken thus far in finding alternatives to animal testing. Please continue your efforts to eliminate animal testing from your practices completely." Would it be effective?

It could be effective. As a matter of fact, I would write something like that, but I would still let them know that I won't use their products until animal testing is eliminated altogether.

[Jessica]

Nivea (Beiersdorf) are the only big company that i know don't test on animals. Most of their products do contain some animal products,but i only buy the ones that don't. Surely you can find nivea everywhere and they're not expensive, so why don't you try them?

I'm confused, I can't find Nivea on the BUAV list. Or any mention of them being anti-animal testing on the Nivea website..... where did you get this info from?

[VegLes]

I'm confused, I can't find Nivea on the BUAV list. Or any mention of them being anti-animal testing on the Nivea website..... where did you get this info from?


They are on PETA's "Does Not Test" list

[Jessica]

They are on PETA's "Does Not Test" list

Thanks, I've found them on a couple of other lists now too. Just don't understand why they're not on the BUAV list, but then I don't know exactly what their criteria.

It's good to know there's another main-stream, cheap-ish cruelty-free brand around though.

[VeggieKitten]

Another great brand is H2O Plus (http://www.h20plus.com), although they aren't very cheapish. However, the ingredients are very natural and contain a lot of marine extracts and seaweed, which I love.

[DeeDee2012]

a lot of it was P&G (incl. Aussie ... grrrr).

schiesse! Aussie is P&G????????????????? I know the back of the bottle says "Aussie products are never tested on animals" - I guess P&G wants to have their bloody little hands in every market, don't they.
P&G :gun: