Vegan Animals

[luckiecharms]

My dog will eat almost anything except carrots and celery. He will eat it but keep spitting it back out then nibbling at it again. I dont think my dog would make a good vegetarian. He is vicous and chases after rabbits and other animals. I think guinnie pigs or hamsters would make good vegetarians or vegans though.

[Herself]

I think I posted this once before, but both of my dogs are vegan. It was not something I forced on them...it was something that came as a result of one of my dogs having food allergies. The allergy formula food I got for her, I decided would be fine to give to both dogs...and it just turned out that it's vegan. It's not something I planned, it just turned out that way. It turns out that a common food allergen in dogs is meat. I find that interesting.
As far as the cats are concerned, they eat meat still. I've been toying with the idea of veganism for them, but I want to be 100% sure first. One thing I find interesting is that; as far as I know, the only nutrient that is hard to get for the cat is taurine...the taurine that you find in cat food is synthetic because the food has been processed and/or cooked to the point that any natural taurine has been depleted...therefore they add synthetic taurine. This being the case...if the cats were fed a vegan cat food formula.....that too would have synthetic taurine in it. I don't really see the difference. But, as I just stated....I'm still not sure because my cats still do eat meat. If it were up to me, I would never have a cat again because I feel that it's safer for them indoors. I have indoor cats, but it's unfair for them to be cooped up inside. At some point I hope to have a house with an outdoor encloser for them. It would be better than nothing. Oops! I guess I'm getting a little off topic.

[RedStarJedi]

I have pondered the idea because though it may be their natural food the way it is processed and the way the animlas are treated before they are made into pet food is no better than human food, if not worse. In the wild it would be different. It's the old and the sick that are weeded out.

[The Pet Fuhrer]

I just converted my dachsund mix to a vegan diet and she's doing very well. My iguana is already a 99.9% vegan (I will give him a free range boiled egg a few times a year). Phoebe the dog will probably get an occaisonal egg as well. She was already stealing the lizard's greens and squash anyway.

I am also hoping this will help with worms. She has been through 5 back-to-back tapeworm treatments since I adopted her, both Cestex and droncit, pill & injection. She never has fleas & they've never gone away, so I'm convinced it's the same worm. She seems to be "purging" the segments more on a vegan diet (she was either constipated or had diarrhea on the meat-based diet). So we'll see if this helps. Either way, she is healthy and happy on the new & improved diet.

[Herself]

Hey Pet Fuhrer....if you grind a small handful of pumpkin seeds with pinch of fresh garlic and mix it with your dogs food every day for a few weeks...that's supposed to get the head of the worm unattached. Usually the pieces of worm coming out are just segments of the worm, and the head is still in the body continuing to grow segments. The pills don't always kill this. Also figs are supposed to help...and dogs love those.

[SharkbarkBE]

Personally I would not force my diet on my pets, I don't think it's right to make them conform to my lifestyle. However, if you do want to put your pets on a veg*an diet, I'd be very careful. Dogs can survive on a vegetarian diet, but everything I've read says a cat MUST eat meat in order to stay healthy, or even to stay alive (I used to want to be a veterinarian and read a lot of books on the subject of diet for animals.) I wouldn't reccomend trying to make a cat vegetarian, it's just too risky, I love my cat too much to compromise her health that way.

If you really want a vegan pet, I agree with earlier posters, get something like a guinea pig, iguana, rabbit, etc. Or a dog if you're willing to cook. But please don't force your cat, or any other animal that needs meat, to eat vegan!

[The Pet Fuhrer]

Herself,

Thanks so much for the info- I feel bad every time I expose her to deworming chemicals, but am determined to get RID of them once and for all. I will definitely try the pumpkin seed/garlic/fig thing!

On a brighter note, she just tested heartworm free, 5 months after the treatment she had when I got her :)

Sharkbarkbe: I think people need to be responsible and research objectively, but i believe the points about the toxicity of commercial dogfood are valid.

[RedStarJedi]

hmm garlic huh? My cat has been fighting a worm and he's hella skinny and always hungry even though he supposedly is clean. maybe I need to try that

[MsRuthieB]

I remember an episode from Animal Precinct on the Animal Planet channel. The lady was an immigrant from Russia or Germany and originally had a couple 2 or 3 cats. Well, she didn't have a job, very little money, and not being familiar with the system was not aware of spade/neuter programs. She didn't speak hardly any english. Well, years later she had over 20 cats. Someone in the apartment building called the animal cops on her ( I forget at the moment what exactly they are called). Anyhow, the lady lived on rice and veggies 'cause that's all she could afford. She, in turn gave rice and veggies to her cats. They confiscated the cats and the vet at the ASPCA checked them out. A few were blind and a few were going blind. All were very skinny. The vet said it was the lack of taurine that caused them to loose their eyesite.

[Mera'din]

Doesn't taurine come only from animals? So there's no such thing as a healthy vegetarian cat?

[MsRuthieB]

If taurine comes only from animals then I would say no, there's no such thing as a healthy vegetarian cat.

[Herself]

True...taurine comes only from animal sources. Cat food though...loses taurine through being processed and/or cooked so they have to add synthetic taurine that's been created in a lab. I don't see this as being healthy at all. If you wanted to have a truly healthy cat...you would feed it home cooked (or raw) food. I know a couple of people that do this for their cats. But there are lots of people who can't afford to do that, and they buy the cat food. This being said, the cats are only getting synthetic taurine, even if their food contains meat. Either way, veggie cat or non-veggie cat...if they are being fed store-bought food, they're getting synthetic taurine.

[MsRuthieB]

Originally posted by Herself
If you wanted to have a truly healthy cat...you would feed it home cooked (or raw) food.

I totally disagree. Cats are carnivores. They need meat or fish to supply the necessary protein, fat, minerals and such that only these items can provide. Here's some great info on the proper diet for a cat:

http://web.vet.cornell.edu/Public/FHC/feedcats.html

Taurine (synthetic or not) promotes the intestinal absorption of lipids (fats) as cholesterol. A feline lacking an appropriate amount of taurine could (at the least) lose its eyesight and at the worst, could develop cardiomyopathy and would mostly likely die a very uncomfortable death.

From Catfancy's library:

Cats are obligate carnivores: they must eat meat to obtain all of the nutrients they need to stay healthy, Dr. Remillard says.

Cats get taurine, vitamin A and an essential fatty acid called arachidonic acid, a vital component of cell membranes, from animal sources, Dr. Carey says. Taurine is an amino acid used to maintain normal bile function and healthy eyes and heart. It is continually lost from the body as the bile acids flow to the gall bladder, then into the small intestines to digest fat and are eventually expelled from the body in feces.

Taurine needs to be constantly replaced, Dr. Remillard says. A kitten raised without it will go blind or develop cardiomyopathy, a fatal heart disease, Dr. Tripp says.

http://www.catfancy.com/catfancy/library/articleview.asp?Section=&RecordNo=1877

Please be careful with your cat's dietary needs

[Mera'din]

I think what Herself was taking about was feeding your cat a homemade raw meat diet.

This is actually quite healthy. Cats, being carnivores, are not harmed by raw meats. There's all kinds of information about how to prepare these meals for your cat on the net and in books authored by experts.

I've considered doing it, but a) I don't think I could stomach the handling of the raw meat. b) it's expensive and time consuming (and I have little money and even less time). c) it requiers a lot of work and careful planning.

[MsRuthieB]

Oh, she left out the meat part...Sorry Herself :)

[SharkbarkBE]

For those of you with your dogs on vegan diets... I found this recipe for vegan dog biscuits on a kennel club website.

Vegan Dog Cookies

1-1/2 c. whole wheat flour
1/8 c. peanut butter, no additives or salt
1-1/2 c. whole grain oats (oatmeal)
1/4 c. molasses
1/4 c. untoasted wheat germ
1/8 c. olive oil
1/8 c. soy flour
1/2 c. water
1/2 c. buckwheat flour
1/2 c. soy milk
1/8 c. honey


Preheat oven to 300 degrees. Mix dry ingredients first, then add the others and mix well. Make into 1" (one inch) balls, place on a greased (with olive oil) cookie sheet, then flatten. Bake for 60 minutes. Turn off oven. Let sit in oven for 30 minutes more.

[Herself]

Yes! I meant meat! LOL. :)

So MsRuthieB....the stuff you were quoting...doesn't it say that synthetic and genuine taurine do the same thing?

Let me just say that my cats DO eat meat and will forever eat meat unless I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that they could be healthy otherwise. It's not something I would do on a whim like a crazy person. :P lol Anyhoo...besides taurine, what would they be missing? I'm not doing any research right now because it's not something I plan on doing anytime soon...I just like this topic. ;) I know that carnitine is important...but that can be easily obtained.