do you enjoy having a space like VB to come to?

[Kreeli]

i know i sure do. i've been around lots of veggie bbs in my time online, and i can tell you, this one here is the best of them all. we've got everything.

i was once a major "player" on a women's bulletin board, from the time i had my baby boy back in '97 until 2001. it was a great space. i was a moderator there for the "women's sexuality" forum. we had amazing conversations and learned a lot from one another. we also talked frankly and openly with young women that would come in, curious or confused, about their bodies and their "urges". there was nothing pornographic allowed, no pictures, no stories, just frank, matter-of-fact sex talk. there was also a forum on the boards dedicated solely to the teen and pre-teen women that were participating there.

then all these new laws came into effect in 2000 about minors online. in a matter of months, this bulletin board was slapped with a huge lawsuit because they'd been allowing minors to post without first recieving their parents' permission. this was because of the sex forum. some parent (or parents) went on the site to see what her daughter was involved in, got offended by some of the issues that were being discussed there, was agahst that her daughter was participating, and that was that. by january 2001, this huge, valuable women's resource shut down. it was either that or face months or years of legal fees. as it was they only had to offer an apology and close up shop. HUNDREDS of women who'd formed connections and enjoyed the community there were lost to one another. some of us tried to reform groups, but everyone was so scattered and there were so many different boards and groups to visit if you wanted to keep up and in touch, there was just no replacing that space.

i don't know about anyone else, but i would be HEARTBROKEN if i saw VB go down the same path. of course Michael has put safeguards up as best he can, by limiting registration to only those over the age of 13, but we still don't know who is really what age for sure, and that is why it is VERY important that nothing happen on VB (either on the boards or in the chat room) that could be construed as unnacceptable viewing material for minors.

please be smart about what you post here. you could ruin it for everyone. and if the administration decides that you are using poor judgement or posting unacceptable things, you should be prepared to face the consequences. this is how he keeps this place alive for us all. show a little respect or do your thing somewhere else.

thanks.

[Michael]

I don't mind discussing what happened as long as we can do it in a mature fashion. I just think people need to realize that this had the potential to lead to legal problems.

I asked why links to nude images were posted to "joy" who according to our member list is 17 years old. Several people said they thought it was joyful-eyes but it took some discussion before I got a definitive answer. If someone had said right off that "It wasn't that joy, it was joyful-eyes." I wouldn't have batted an eye. In fact, I knew about it and was talking about it. Only once I realized they were posted for "joy" did I make an issue of it.

If anyone wants to post the chat log that's fine by me.

Technically the same rules that apply to the boards apply to the chat. I would hope people would realize that I wouldn't have permanently banned joyful-eyes for using the name "joy" in chat. A simple e-mail from her and I would have explained why it was done and that would have been the end of it.

I know you guys like to tease me about avatars but I really have very few rules around here. All I ask is that whatever is posted be respectful of other members (and I let that one slide a lot) and that everything be suitable for ages 13 and up. The fact of the matter is we can not monitor what happens in that chat room 24 hours a day. And we don't have the ability to undo anything that may be inappropriate or even illegal. I'm sorry but there are very few people here I'm willing to get into legal trouble for and none of them were in that room tonight. If people don't understand or appreciate that then that's fine.

Keep things civil here. Like I said, I don't mind discussing it. I won't attack anyone and I don't want to be attacked. If it comes to that then the thread will be locked and it'll all go to pm's. Any additional threads on it will be locked and moved out of view. I don't want to have to do that.

[KC Kid]

Right on Kreeli!!

Porn has no place on these boards, if your seeking porn go to one of the other million sites. If your seeking/viewing underage porn, I hope Bubba works you over real well behind bars..

[Kreeli]

sorry, michael, i wanted to keep specifics out of this and just talk about it as a general thing because there are obviously hurt feelings and miscommunications abounding in this particular situation. i was hoping that all the particulars would be done calmly through PMs and not hashed out here. things tend to get way more heated and weird when there's an audience.

i hope everything gets sorted out. i hate to see members leaving and/or being banned because of misunderstandings.

[Erin_S2S]

I have to say that everytime I see a thread started complaining about administrative/mod actions, I get so disappointed.
I saw VegWeb fall apart because of stuff like that. I don't want to see that happen here.

[Michael]

I know but it was bound to get specific and I wanted to address some concerns right off the bat. As long as we can keep things civil then everything will be fine.

No one was going to be banned tonight. Like I said, joyful-eyes would have been allowed back. If people choose to leave that's obviously up to them.

I just think people need to realize it wasn't just me throwing a "hissy fit." I had a very good reason for it. I know I'm moody but I don't want people to think I go on a ban/delete rampage whenever someone looks at me funny.

[Kreeli]

i certainly know you don't do that. i've worked with you and been here for a long time and been witness to your even handedness often.

i think there were a lot of knee jerk reactions to this and it blew totally out of proportion with stonecrest's big ranty goodbye. something that could be entirely avoided if someone had just PMd mods or the admin to talk about it and perhaps figure out a solution.

[Michael]

And for what it's worth VegWeb has a chat that Yvette had volunteered to let us use.

[KC Kid]

-M-

Being moody is understandable, especially since your a SOX fan. That would put anyone in a miserable mood. The only "hissy fit" I ever saw in ya, was when you found a 4 month old container of mac and cheese that I stashed away in your work locker. -X-

[JLRodgers]

The minor issue is really big places... been in groups (non-veg*n related) that were closed for no reason, and they even had warnings of "18 or older", even though some didn't even have topics of that sort. Only thing that we (the mods) of the group got in one was a "inappropriate material for minors". Apparently the mods were supposed to verify all the info entered for accuracy. There were THOUSANDS of people that were lost, never to be found - because the e-mails were lost when the boards were deleted.

Another one that's currently up (in australia) has banned any use of any info that's direct from a site (ie: cut & paste of an artical), and banned any picture posting, unless they're of you (and have to be able to prove it!). Avatars are even restricted to the free ones that came with the board software!

All of these things just because of the potential legal issues.

Of course you have the multi-international thing here... some countries have different age ranges for consent ranging from 15-21 I believe. And all it'd take is one parent seeing or having a problem with a post that their kids could see, and that'd be the (potential) end.

[Artichoke47]

Wait a second! Does this mean that you don't like our "advice" or descriptions in the Women's Birds and Bees forum?

Just checking...

[majake]

[21:06] * Joins: VBGuest7101 (~eirc@atlnga1-ar4-4-46-113-133.atlnga1.dsl-verizon.net)
[21:07] <kerouac> guests a plenty!
[21:07] * VBGuest5952 is now known as morphine
[21:07] <Marie> Hi
[21:07] * VBGuest7101 is now known as MichaelVB
[21:07] <majake> hi morphine
[21:07] <majake> hi michael
[21:07] <morphine> hey everyone
[21:07] <Marie> Hi
[21:07] <MichaelVB> Hi.
[21:07] <kerouac> MICHAEL!!!!!
[21:08] <morphine> wow michael is mister popularity i think
[21:08] <MichaelVB> You act like you never see me.
[21:08] <kerouac> i sent you an im earlier!!
[21:08] <kerouac> and IRP sent one a few days ago
[21:08] <kerouac> [edit smilie]
[21:08] <MichaelVB> Ah, that's right, thanks.
[21:08] <kerouac> blah
[21:08] <morphine> did everyone have a good thanksgiving?
[21:08] <Marie> it was okay..
[21:08] <MichaelVB> We had ours yesterday, it was nice.
[21:08] <Marie> a bit boring
[21:09] <majake> mine was boring until marie came on.
[21:09] <majake> [edit smilie]
[21:09] <MichaelVB> On what?
[21:09] <morphine> i think holidays really are boring....they were fun when i was little and believed in santa and stuff
[21:09] <Marie> aww majake
[21:09] <MichaelVB> Yeah, me too. [edit smilie]
[21:10] <morphine> sometimes, growing up sucks...i would love to go back to fingerpainting and nap time and all of that
[21:10] <kerouac> i stopped growing up
[21:10] <morphine> but i don't know too many 4 year old that are getting into harvard medical school
[21:10] <morphine> that's wonderful....i would if i could
[21:11] <stonecrest> hi michael, morphine
[21:11] <kerouac> la la la i lurve you mike. and all you wonderful vb people
[21:11] <MichaelVB> Hi SC.
[21:11] <morphine> hey there
[21:11] <stonecrest> joy left?
[21:11] <kerouac> she was offended by the pic
[21:11] <MichaelVB> Did it contain nudity?
[21:12] <stonecrest> i don't blame her
[21:12] <kerouac> um yes
[21:12] <kerouac> to both
[21:12] <MichaelVB> Of a woman?
[21:12] <kerouac> of male and females
[21:12] <stonecrest> i didn't want to see that either
[21:12] <kerouac> er, one of each
[21:12] <MichaelVB> Eh, I don't want to see then.
[21:12] <kerouac> yeah i could have gone all day without seeing it too
[21:12] <kerouac> or all year actually
[21:12] <morphine> feelin out of the loop here....nudity, pictures, vegetarians and vegans....very afraid now
[21:13] <morphine> oh well...ignorance is bliss
[21:13] <kerouac> haha welcome to chat
[21:13] <morphine> thanks
[21:14] <morphine> i'm sure it's going to be....interesting.....
[21:14] <kerouac> at the very least
[21:14] <MichaelVB> I don't know anything about nudity. But I guess if you hang in here long enough you'll see it.
[21:14] <kerouac> youll be confused
[21:14] <kerouac> well it might have been a first for joy
[21:14] <MichaelVB> Who is joy?
[21:15] <morphine> nudity happens...that's just about all you need to know michael
[21:15] <Marie> a steven seagal stalker
[21:15] * Quits: MichaelVB (~eirc@atlnga1-ar4-4-46-113-133.atlnga1.dsl-verizon.net) (Quit: Today is a good day to chat.)
[21:15] <morphine> Steven Segal....hot stuff
[21:15] <majake> bye michael
[21:15] * Joins: VBGuest0798 (~eirc@atlnga1-ar4-4-46-113-133.atlnga1.dsl-verizon.net)
[21:15] <Gentlemoose> "hawt"
[21:15] <majake> wb
[21:15] <Marie> wb
[21:15] <VBGuest0798> nick /MichaelVB
[21:15] <VBGuest0798> Got dammit.
[21:15] <Marie> lol
[21:15] * VBGuest0798 is now known as MichaelVB
[21:16] <morphine> technology...it's a beautiful thing
[21:16] <majake> yes it is
[21:16] <majake> some of the things you can see with technology are beautiful things
[21:16] <Marie> because of it I can see majake
[21:16] <majake> [edit smilie]
[21:16] <MichaelVB> So do you guys realize joy is 17 years old?
[21:16] <Marie> [edit smilie]
[21:17] <kerouac> no she isnt
[21:17] <majake> [edit smilie]
[21:17] <morphine> hmm
[21:17] <kerouac> joyful eyes
[21:17] <majake> shes 34
[21:17] <Marie> she says she's 34
[21:17] <kerouac> is like 34
[21:17] <MichaelVB> Ah.
[21:17] <morphine> is there something wrong with being 17 years old?
[21:17] <kerouac> no
[21:17] * Gentlemoose trembles
[21:17] <kerouac> but it would be illegal to view porn on the net
[21:17] <majake> yep
[21:17] <MichaelVB> There is if people are posting nudies.
[21:17] <morphine> aaah
[21:17] <kerouac> and we are only perverts around adults
[21:17] <majake> yep
[21:17] <Marie> unless she lied about her age.. but why would anyone say they're 34
[21:18] <morphine> yea...but a lot of high school guys that are under 18 are porn-a-holics
[21:18] <majake> yeah, if i lied about my age i would say i was 29
[21:18] <majake> [edit smilie]
[21:18] <Marie> lol
[21:18] <kerouac> haha
[21:18] <Marie> I would say I was 24
[21:18] <Gentlemoose> I don't much get the sense that she's a high school guy.
[21:18] <Marie> not that anyone would believe me
[21:18] <majake> you could pass for 24
[21:19] <Marie> hehe
[21:19] <Marie> aww
[21:19] <morphine> well...that's true...but i mean...ah nevermid
[21:19] <kerouac> haha but oh if she was...
[21:19] <morphine> i had a point for a while there, but i forgot it
[21:19] <morphine> short term memory loss...or something
[21:19] <kerouac> haha. are you old enough for that? or has it set in early?
[21:20] <stonecrest> high school guy, or girl ?
[21:20] <morphine> i'm confused again
[21:21] <morphine> so anywyas
[21:21] <morphine> ways*
[21:21] <Marie> michael, you thought joy was a teen too?
[21:22] <Marie> when she first started chatting I thought she was 15 to 17
[21:22] <kerouac> you can be anyone you want over the internet, who is to say
[21:22] <stonecrest> Joyful-Eyes
[21:22] <stonecrest> (Member)
[21:22] <stonecrest> Birthday : 02-26-69
[21:22] <morphine> that's true
[21:22] <MichaelVB> There is a user named joy who is 17.
[21:22] <morphine> ohhh
[21:22] <majake> I thought joy was joyful eyes
[21:22] <kerouac> she is
[21:22] <Marie> she is
[21:22] <majake> i see michael, i hope its not her
[21:22] <MichaelVB> That's why people need to use their VB names.
[21:23] <kerouac> it isnt she said she was joyful eyes
[21:23] <majake> i would feel really bad if it was
[21:23] <majake> ok
[21:23] <kerouac> and you would burn in hell forever for that picture
[21:23] <MichaelVB> This is great. I just love how people can't follow simple directions.
[21:23] * Quits: MichaelVB (~eirc@atlnga1-ar4-4-46-113-133.atlnga1.dsl-verizon.net) (Quit: Today is a good day to chat.)


Everyone is pissed because you could have emailed/PMed a warning or discussed it with the mods who are usually in chat to give her a warning next time she entered chat and make sure they make it clear to people who are in chat to use their VB names. Banning her was a kneejerk reaction on your part.

[majake]

Right on Kreeli!!

Porn has no place on these boards, if your seeking porn go to one of the other million sites. If your seeking/viewing underage porn, I hope Bubba works you over real well behind bars..
:rolleyes: Whatever spam boy, go put your black thong on and chase your wife some more.

[Michael]

This was posted right under the chat window...



Enter your VB member name in the upper left-hand corner and hit enter. You must always use your VB member name.

If you do not enter a name you will be kicked. If you use someone else's name you will be banned (from the chat and the boards).

[majake]

Half the people who use chat should be banned then.

[Epinephrine]

um, doesn't anyone here get it? joy (Joyful-Eyes) didn't do anything. she dind't post the pictures. others were joking with her. and i'm sure she had no idea there was another VB member named joy. am i supposed to check the members list every day to see if a minor signs up with the name "Epi", that i regularly use in chat?

i'm not complaining -- i like VB very much. but for the exact same reasons as Kreeli, i hate to see people i talk to in chat almost every day be outright banned because of something that she had nothing to do with.

[Michael]

I don't even care that someone used the wrong name and as I've said I wasn't going to permanently ban her. I'm upset that there seemed to be some uncertainty as to who was getting the links to nude images. Which have no place in any area affiliated with VB to begin with. When I looked up "joy" and saw that she was 17 years old it just made me realize there was probably stuff going on in there that is not appropriate for 13 and over, which everything on VB should be.

[Kreeli]

i think it's fairly clear that joyfuleyes made a mistake in not making it obvious she is who she is, and that michael had to react to the situation at hand with the info he had.

what is a good solution to this problem? i no longer see a link to a chat room. can joyful eyes come back? can people agree to no longer post inappropriate things here?

[KC Kid]

:rolleyes: Whatever spam boy, go put your black thong on and chase your wife some more.

KC is rather disappointed, that was quite weak. Yea, proudly married for 10 years, and heck yea I've joked about chasing her around in my thong. The X-Factor always knows how to put a smile on a viewers face.

[Walter]

YaY! Drama!! It's been weeks! :lol:

[Michael]

I have since unbanned her. So yeah, she can.

The chat is going though. You guys are free to start your own or to use the chat at VegWeb.

Could this night get any better? My mom's coat got stolen and she has no keys to her car or house so I have to drive an hour to pick her up and take her home and then an hour back. Fun.

I hate to leave this thread. I'm going to be more tired and no doubt more moody when I get back so please please please keep this civil.

[Epinephrine]

if it's only content, the female sexual health thread should definitely be closed then. or you could always make a 18+ forum and move sensitive posts there.

[majake]

I don't even care that someone used the wrong name and as I've said I wasn't going to permanently ban her. I'm upset that there seemed to be some uncertainty as to who was getting the links to nude images. Which have no place in any area affiliated with VB to begin with. When I looked up "joy" and saw that she was 17 years old it just made me realize there was probably stuff going on in there that is not appropriate for 13 and over, which everything on VB should be.


Huh, I just heard from a certain member you asked in VB CHAT to see a picture of her tits, which she linked to it in chat just for you. You didn't seem to have a problem with that.

and least we not forget your most recent request, knowing full well chat got a little racy:


Anyone doing the webcam thing tonight? :naughty: :D

:rolleyes: Yeah Michael, glad to see you are following your own lead here.

[Erin_S2S]

I would hope people would realize that I wouldn't have permanently banned joyful-eyes for using the name "joy" in chat. A simple e-mail from her and I would have explained why it was done and that would have been the end of it.
Are people missing this part?


If a few deep breathes would have been taken and a couple pms sent out, I think a lot of conflict could have been avoided.

I don't think Michael is the one who had a hissy fit.

[Kreeli]

majake, with all do respect, please chill out. joyful eyes is welcome. chat is gone. there's nothing left to do, unless you want to ceaselessly sling mud.

i don't think the sexual health threads are a problem. pornography is. and finally, michael only got upset because he thought the member offended at viewing the pictures was SEVENTEEN. there are legal implications to consider, here.