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lucycat
11-12-03, 06:59 PM
From http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/11/12/girl.scouts.trapping.ap/index.html

Girl Scouts trap beaver, anger activists

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 Posted: 9:13 AM EST (1413 GMT)


ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) -- Let other Girl Scouts make bird feeders out of Clorox bottles and glue together little birch-bark canoes -- Troop 34 in Alaska is learning to trap and skin beavers.

In a practice that has angered animal rights activists, the girls are killing the beavers as part of a state flood-management program.

"We think it sends a very, very bad message that when animals cause a problem you kill them," said Stephanie Boyles of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. She said the Girl Scouts should want girls to become "stewards of wildlife, not abusers."

Last spring, about 10 members of the Fairbanks troop and their families helped catch two beavers using snare and lethal traps. The girls were taught how to find the animals' dens and how to lay the traps. Working under close supervision, the girls used knives to skin the beavers.

The troop had the pelts tanned and plans to make hats and mittens once a dozen hides are collected. The girls also want to cook beaver meat.

They plan to begin setting traps out again this month.

Alaska Girl Scout leaders said they know of no other troop in the country to take part in such a program.

State-offered invitation
Officials at the Girl Scouts' New York headquarters did not return repeated calls. But in a September 16 letter to PETA, spokeswoman Courtney Shore said the organization does not promote trapping or hunting and does not offer merit badges for those activities.

Shore noted that Troop 34, made up of 13 girls ages 10 to 12, participated after an invitation from the state Department of Fish and Game.

"It is understandable why the troop responded positively when approached by a state authority to conduct an activity that is commonplace in that area of the country," Shore wrote.

The state-run Take a Kid Trapping program is aimed at controlling flooding and other damage caused by an increasing number of beavers along the lower Chena River in Fairbanks. It is open to kids as young as 7.

Alaska scout leaders said the program is a "non-issue" in Fairbanks, where trapping has a long history.

Alaskan heritage
Troop 34 leader Dona Boylan said she wanted to impart lessons in responsible game management to Troop 34's members, who are city girls, at least by Alaska's standards. Fairbanks is a city of nearly 30,000.

"Trapping may not be pretty, but the girls understand the seriousness and huge responsibility of taking a life," Boylan said. "They understand that when humans impact their environment, they become ultimately responsible for maintaining a healthy population of the animals they have to coexist with in these urban centers."

Girl Scout leaders said none of the girls would talk to The Associated Press.

"I feel like PETA doesn't have a concept that trapping is considered a heritage here in Alaska," said Mike McDougall, a trapper who worked with the scouts. "These kids are learning more than just how to take an animal. They're learning about ecology. They also got a definite sense of respect for the animals."

The program is helping to curb a burgeoning population of the large rodents, which in Alaska can weigh up to 70 pounds. Their growing numbers are attributed to recent warm winters and a drop in commercial trapping.

"Beavers are a valuable source of education for our young people," said Tom Seaton, a Fish and Game biologist. "Their carcasses can used in many ways -- for food, for warm garments.

Almost everything about beavers is good except when they flood your yard or knock down live trees."

muppetcow
11-12-03, 07:37 PM
"They understand that when humans impact their [beavers] environment, they become ultimately responsible for maintaining a healthy population of the animals they have to coexist with in these urban centers."

Vomit. How 'bout teaching the kids a little lesson in urban planning so you don't end up with all this crappy urban sprawl that's taking away habitat. Or talk about human overpopulation and the negative effects it has on the ecosystem. Oh, no--can't do that. The only solution, obviously, is teaching young girls that it's ok to kill an animal upon whose habitat you've encroached if that animal inconveniences you or if you need a hat.

808veggie
11-12-03, 07:47 PM
I have never liked organizations like this, they tend to be biased,homophobic and racist.

mountainvegan
11-12-03, 08:18 PM
Yeah, the old "heritage" and "tradition" argument. Like if Nazi genocide went on for years because the allied forces couldn't stop Hitler, it would become "tradition," and therefore, totally acceptable. Whatever.

I agree, 808veggie, these organizations tend to promote narrow mindedness, egocentrism, groupthink, and blind conformity.

Tame
11-12-03, 08:23 PM
" How 'bout teaching the kids a little lesson in urban planning so you don't end up with all this crappy urban sprawl that's taking away habitat. Or talk about human overpopulation and the negative effects it has on the ecosystem.

Probably because that is not a big issue in Alaska, and won't be for many, many years?

Seriously, I wonder about some of the comments I read here at times. A Girl Scout troop engages in a trapping activity, and then someone starts alleging they are homophobic and racist.

mountainvegan
11-12-03, 08:38 PM
I can see how something as backwards (in time) as trapping would remind someone of how backward in time the ideals of certain organizations are. I agree there is no connection between trapping, homophobia, and racism, but all are reminiscent of the late 1800s and early 1900s. Alaska is general is reminiscent of those times, too. They've got rednecks up there that would scare the sh*t out of Wyoming or Mississippii rednecks (no offense to anyone from those 3 states). :D

mountainvegan
11-12-03, 08:46 PM
*Says in his best "Deliverance" accent with "dualing banjos" in the background*

I tink ima gonna trapme somma dem beavers.

strawberry
11-12-03, 09:11 PM
I have never liked organizations like this, they tend to be biased,homophobic and racist.

While I do not agree with what those girls are doing, I don't think that it is anyone's business to accuse a worldwide organization of being biased, homophobic, and racist because a couple of girls who happened to participate in that organization trapped some beavers. Homophobia and racism have nothing to with that whatsoever.

As a lifetime Girl Scout and a Girl Scout leader myself I know that you have obviously not done your research on what this organization promotes. I volunteer my time and energy through this program because it is one that promotes and celebrates diversity and acceptance of EVERYONE. That includes racial minorities and majorities. That also includes homosexuals and heterosexuals. I won't go into further detail about how I feel about the Girl Scout organization, but I just thought that you should know that it's not necessary to criticize what you don't know about.

mouse
11-12-03, 10:26 PM
Strawberry, I think that people may be assuming that the Girl Scouts have the same policies that put the Boy Scouts in the news in recent years? Maybe you could tell us more.

mouse
11-12-03, 10:32 PM
Probably because that is not a big issue in Alaska, and won't be for many, many years?



I think that the point muppet was making is that we humans automatically assume that the answer to any animal "problem" is to kill the animal, even though we actually created the problem by moving into their habitat. That holds true in the sparsely populated states as well as the densely populated ones.

Are you saying that we humans aren't having a significant impact on the environment of Alaska?

mountainvegan
11-12-03, 10:38 PM
Yes, the Boy Scout news is where some of my impressions have been coming from and I've been (inappropriately) projecting that to the Girl Scouts. Also, I'm sure, just as in most large organizations, there are the good, the bad, and the ugly. So, as usual, generalizations about the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts are probably shortsighted.

I still maintain that groups can promote blind conformity and stuff like that (from personal experience). I think these girls in this instance could have just as easily been taught how atrocious trapping is and that's why groups should be careful what they teach. Blind conformity is very easy in a group setting.

strawberry
11-12-03, 10:55 PM
I would encourage anyone to look around the Girl Scouts of USA website:
http://www.girlscouts.org/

The main principle behind all of how Girl Scouts works is for the girls, by the girls. Through programs girls are encouraged to grow as individuals and grow to appreciate the other idividuals around them. They are shown how to be thoughtful, independent, and assertive of their beliefs. Girl Scouts serves individuals of all races, socioeconomic backgrounds, sexual orientations, nationalities, etc.

Here are the main program goals of the Girl Scouts of USA:
http://www.girlscouts.org/program/program_goals.html

This is a bit of information on Face It, a group that I have been volunteering with for the past 2 and a half years, which is a major part of my life. http://www.gsmt.org/programs-face_it.shtml

Hopefully this will give some people some insight on what Girl Scouting is about.

MelinaM
11-12-03, 11:27 PM
I have been a Girl Scout for the last 20 years, as both a girl and an adult volunteer.
Girl Scouts is a large non-profit organization, relying very very heavily on volunteers.
I am extremely dissapointed that a girl scout troop would engage in such activity. Please see Strawberry's post for links to the Girl Scout organization and program goals.
Now I am a leader of a Brownie troop. I would never have girls trap and kill animals!!!

kristadb
11-13-03, 01:07 AM
The state-run Take a Kid Trapping program

oh.my.god. Wow...

To think, all this time I've been trying to get Take a Kid to a soup kitchen program working. trapping is where it's at :sheep:

RumpusParable
11-16-03, 12:05 PM
while it's rather bizarre to think this is a girl scout activity looking back at my own girl scouting days, it being in alaska makes it more understandable that it's occurring. living conditions & interaction with animals is quite different up there...

and while i think it's a bad precedent, it's highly unlikely this is going to cause a lack of respect for animals in a bunch of Fairbanks kids. one of the key things drilled into your head living in alaska is that the wildlife is 90% of the time more important than you are. if something attacks you, you better have proof it did it spontaneously and actually was bent on harming you (in most cases, you better have a wound) before you even consider protecting yourself with a firearm or such.

and with some species, best of luck. when it comes down to the animal or you, they prefer to see you go.

in many areas there, this extends to trees & bushes, too.

then there's the other side of it that trapping & hunting actually are still used for survival many places there and are a possible future of kids raised in the towns where it's currently not needed.

while i don't agree with the practice, the situation & mindset of those living there is not one that is shared other places in the US...

kristadb
11-16-03, 02:24 PM
I see what you're saying. I come from a place where hunting literally keeps people fed in the winter months.

But food wasn't one of the main reasons cited. It was that the beavers were making life difficult for the humans who moved into their territory.

Michael
11-16-03, 02:26 PM
I made a bad joke at work the other night. Some guys were talking about the "girl scouts trapping beaver" and one of the guys said "I wonder what the boy scouts are doing" and I said "probably eating it." I told you it was bad. :(

Gracie
11-16-03, 03:17 PM
Just popped in to tell you how much I love the title of this thread!

Artichoke47
11-16-03, 04:36 PM
I'm not ragging on Girl Scouts in general, but gosh, I wonder what kind of women these girls are going to grow up to be. Sick ****ards, if you ask me! How could someone kill and then skin an animal?! Sick!!!

Tame
11-16-03, 07:16 PM
I'm not ragging on Girl Scouts in general, but gosh, I wonder what kind of women these girls are going to grow up to be. Sick ****ards, if you ask me! How could someone kill and then skin an animal?! Sick!!!

I dunno. they will probably grow up well, just like many humans have for, oh, thousands of years.

Tame
11-16-03, 07:16 PM
Just popped in to tell you how much I love the title of this thread!
I'm glad somebody else posted this. I thought that the first time i saw that thread, but I didn't want to sound like a perv and all. :tame:

Tame
11-16-03, 07:18 PM
I made a bad joke at work the other night. Some guys were talking about the "girl scouts trapping beaver" and one of the guys said "I wonder what the boy scouts are doing" and I said "probably eating it." I told you it was bad. :(
Bad, but had to be said. :tame:
(I would have said "chasing beaver", and that age, boy scouts don't get to, ahem, well, eat it as much. :D

Sevenseas
11-16-03, 07:41 PM
I dunno. they will probably grow up well, just like many humans have for, oh, thousands of years.

It's debatable, whether many humans have grown up well, either.. (If 'well' equals to 'morally' I mean - which is the definition referred to IMO.)

Tame
11-17-03, 03:37 AM
It's debatable, whether many humans have grown up well, either.. (If 'well' equals to 'morally' I mean - which is the definition referred to IMO.)

Of course, it depends on what "morally" means also...do you really want to go down this path again? Oh, I forgot, all humans are bad unless they agree with you. :rolleyes:

Sevenseas
11-17-03, 11:21 AM
Of course, it depends on what "morally" means also...

Yes, and it doesn't mean "in a manner supported by the majority".