With all the interest on the prayer thread, pledge thread, i thought that with season of giving decending upon us that this may well be a good followup.
Christmass is largly viewed as a christian holiday where by it has been recognized as a National holiday. i am sure many athiest, and non secular beilfes find this offensive taht they have been forced to not work on this day in observance of the bith of christ the son of God. who thinks it should be removed as a National Holiday due to sep of church and state, who is a none secular that practices Christmass, who feels they have to in fear of harasment. and many more way to object, or aprove.
I hate that Christmass is about "whatcha get" and not what did you give as I believe in giving more than recieving, and cherishing everything that I have been given, i value a hand made gift more than store bought. My favorite gifts recieved of all time in no particular order
My daughters hand prints in plaster last year
The hand carved wooden box made of ceader my granfather made me.
The reproduction bakers table my uncle made me from an old family patten.
The micrometers of my great grandfather, grandfather adn father
Pictures of the homes desgined and built by great grandfather and grand father
Given
Elk hunt for a girl dying of cancer and her mother
sending a family to disneyland
walking in to the USMC Toys For Tots drop of station and asking them to unload my pick/up truck
Dressing as Santa for the Shrine childrens Burn hospital
Donating 1000acres to pheanst forever/ ducks unlimited in memory of my father
buying a star and naming it after my wife, daughter and son
giving a check for 2 thousand dollars to child who was going door to door selling candy bars to raise money for his school.

For my family and me, Christmas is an utterly secular Holiday.
I could, however, imagine those of non-Christian faiths who celebrate other winter festivals being offended that Christmas is THE national winter holiday.

ebola
np: nuthin

For me and my husband, it's about giving gifts (and getting them), and spendiong time with our families and each other. For our families, I know it's that and a religious holiday for them.

I for one put a lot of thought into gifts for people, and don't worry about what I'll get. I know my husband will get me a gift certificate for 6 massages (and another on my birthday in June so I'm covered all year!). My brother has offered to get us a mattress and box springs from a friend who sells them who owes him a favor. He knows we need them. I try to give thoughtful and useful gifts to people. As far as what I'll get (besides the massages), I can't think of what to tell people when they ask what we want. It's really not that important.


ETA: Christmass? Typo or Freudian slip? ;)

we celebrate it as a strictly secular holiday in my immeidate household... I try to use it as a time to teach my kids what other cultures and religions celebrate, just to further their knowledge on the topics... My mom,brother, sister etc celebrate it as a religious holiday...

I give what I can...but mostly just make sure my kids have all they need.. at this point I cant really do anymore than that...

I've been there, SDG. One year I made christmas ornaments for everyone. The supplies were cheap - simple frosted or unfrosted glass balls, a chemical that frosts them (used with tape to border the lines, etc.), ribbon, metallic paint pens, etc.

I have a feeling the gifts we buy may be meager this year, too, what with our credit card balances being what they are. I can't imagine if we had kids to care for, too.

christmas was originally a pagan celebration until christianity took over it.

i don't celebrate it but growing up we'd celebrate it secularly. just a family gift-giving get-together, nothing more. none of the kids in the family ever even belived in santa :p

I enjoy the ritual of Christmas Mass, although I am not a Catholic. I also enjoy the ritual of the Passover Seder, nor am I Jewish. My point, I'm not particularly religious, spiritual indeed, and I respect and am interested in many religions and their traditions. I don't think the fact that we have a national holiday to celebrate Christmas is offensive. I think the fact that we have a holiday that is centered around feasting on a turkey is offensive. There a lot of people that are forced TO work that day. I'm sure there are plenty of volunteer organizations that could put some angry athiests to work if they were upset about being forced to not work. I know the kennel where I board my dogs could use some people to walk and feed my "babies" while I'm out of town that day if anyone wants to boycott the Christian holiday that's being forced upon them. :D

I focus on the true meaning of Christmas to keep from getting depressed. I hate the obsession with spending and commercialism. I also hate having to spend time around people that I don't particularly like. This goes way back into my psyche and I don't have the cash to spend on a shrink to undo it. Spent it all on finding myself. The religious aspect of the holiday helps me to put the rest of the craziness in perspective and allows me to be a kinder/gentler me. It also helps keep me out of the booze.

I quit buying gifts for the sake of buying gifts. I didn't give gifts to my mother and stepfather last year - what do you give people that can have ANYTHING they want? I gave them my time and affection, same gift this year. I quit worrying about spending equally on my mother, father, their respective spouses, my brother, etc., etc. Now I buy, or make, whatever I think that person will like. It could be a huge box of used books from the second hand store, or it could be a bottle of herb infused vinegar I made. I don't care if my best friend shows up with a gift for me and I have nothing for him or her - a hug is a wonderful gift that I don't think any of us get enough of. I also gave away the notion that I had to see EVERYONE on Christmas eve or day and I don't feel guilty about it. It kills my father that I was at my mother's in Florida for Christmas last year and plan to be this year, but only because I get a tan! :sunny:

Dawn Girl
You must be inkind with Ben when he said" house guest and fish smell after three days"

The masure is a good gift...the wife would realy take well to a spa day...or 6 thanks for the tip on that.

who thinks it should be removed as a National Holiday due to sep of church and state, who is a none secular that practices Christmass, who feels they have to in fear of harasment. and many more way to object, or aprove.

I'm not a Christian, but I like getting paid days off - so I don't mind it being an official national holiday. I don't feel threatened by it - I look at is simply as the season for giving and remembering others.

I think Christmas is hokey, and I try to celebrate it as minimally as possible. Some parts of it are nice, but I think now that I'm an adult (kind of) I don't need to celebrate it too much.

Also, anything with CHRIST in the name probably isn't for me.


Elk hunt for a girl dying of cancer and her mother


Thank you for inspiring my hilarious new signature.

Nice sig, Peebs :up:


At Christmas time I like to dress up as Santa and read the following (by C. David Coats (from the preface of his book: Old MacDonald's Factory Farm)).

Isn't man an amazing animal? He kills wildlife - birds, kangaroos, deer, all kinds of cats, coyotes, beavers, groundhogs, mice, foxes, and dingoes - by the millions in order to protect his domestic animals and their feed.
Then he kills domestic animals by the billions and eats them. This in turn kills man by the millions, because eating all those animals leads to degenerative and fatal health conditions like heart disease, kidney disease, and cancer.
So then man tortures and kills millions more animals to look for cures for these diseases. Elsewhere, millions of other human beings are being killed by hunger and malnutrition because food they could eat is being used to fatten domestic animals.
Meanwhile, some people are dying of sad laughter at the absurdity of man, who kills so easily and so violently, and once a year sends out a card praying for 'Peace on Earth'.

You rock peebs! :rockon:

I think Christmas is hokey, and I try to celebrate it as minimally as possible. Some parts of it are nice, but I think now that I'm an adult (kind of) I don't need to celebrate it too much.

Also, anything with CHRIST in the name probably isn't for me.



Thank you for inspiring my hilarious new signature.


Thank you for helping get the word out about an organization more focused on caring for the improtance of making dreams come true, than operating under the guise of wish fulfilment( and politcal statments). HOAL an org deidacted to the fulfillment of dying childrens wishes, adn making dreams come true, and giving parents and siblings lasting memories of joy. TO poke fun at this organization is to belittle dying children, their memory and loss those families endure. You are an ass. I ask that you remove that from your signatue, not for me out of respect for those who have passed, and are passing. For your information additonaly some of the children's parents are vegan...do you realy wish to insult them and thier memories.

HOAL an org deidacted to the fulfillment of dying childrens wishes

Dying? Is that, like, a pun, Amerikan?

I ask that you remove that from your signatue, not for me out of respect for those who have passed, and are passing.

Yes, Peebs..... remove your signature out of respect for the non-humans senselessly slaughtered.

Thank you for helping get the word out about an organization more focused on caring for the improtance of making dreams come true, than operating under the guise of wish fulfilment( and politcal statments). HOAL an org deidacted to the fulfillment of dying childrens wishes, adn making dreams come true, and giving parents and siblings lasting memories of joy. TO poke fun at this organization is to belittle dying children, their memory and loss those families endure. You are an ass. I ask that you remove that from your signatue, not for me out of respect for those who have passed, and are passing. For your information additonaly some of the children's parents are vegan...do you realy wish to insult them and thier memories.

You've given some wonderful gifts. And giving dying children their final wish is a wonderful thing. However you must have guessed that this would raise some hackles on a veggie board! And the bit about the children's parents being vegan - really?!

You seem a nice person from your posts, have a big heart and obviously do a huge amount for people. But it might be as well to avoid mentioning stuff like this here. No-one's going to be with you on this one....

You've given some wonderful gifts. And giving dying children their final wish is a wonderful thing. However you must have guessed that this would raise some hackles on a veggie board! And the bit about the children's parents being vegan - really?!

You seem a nice person from your posts, have a big heart and obviously do a huge amount for people. But it might be as well to avoid mentioning stuff like this here. No-one's going to be with you on this one....

thank you for the kind words. i encourage you research your calling into question my point about about some of the parents being vegan, they are, and have said it was one of the hardest things that they have had to deal with, but that each person needs to make the decision about hunting and do what is right for them. You are furhter right in that I should have reconsidered posting how I give to organizations that care so much for children they are willing to help them fulfill legal, constitutionaly protected wishes, but then I would be lying about who I am and how much I care. As for peole bing with me on that issue...no not here...I know that...but the law, the 2nd amendment, various states constitiutions and over 80% of US citizens are with me, and that is ok.

That's cool. I know it's legal, I know most people agree or just don't care. But on this board that's not the case - although very few people here would dispute that people have to make their own choices in life. I just don't see the point of ruffling feathers when the rest of your post was great. It's not like we're going to convert each other, so why bother?

By the way, I love the idea of the plaster hand print. I might think about that for this year.

a friend gave me a great idea last night... using two pieces of plaster to make a mold of the hand. let the plaster set up or use super sculpy avail at Michaels. put the two pieces Upper and lower together seal with more plaster or sculpy. Fill with resien avail also at michales to make a hand casting. She say it seem wierd because you have a 3d hand...but it is nice to see just how small they once were.

Guys Guys, lets keep this on topic.

Christmas has always been a secular holiday for me. Because the Christ part of Christmas was never emphasized in my household when I was growing up, it was always simply a holiday of family gatherings. It was the one time of year when my whole family would come together under one roof, and spend days having games, watching movies, and taking long walks in the snowy countryside. Now that the family element of it has severely broken down, Christmas has lost all meaning for me.

Shamus, maybe this year you could relight those memories and pull the family together again, maybe even just for one night, durring the holidays. Our family is so large we dont fit in a house esp with folks traveling from and wide. We pick a hotle/resort last year it was Frankenmuth MI, and get together there. It is not home and some of theat feeling is gone, but it is a great way to get together again...esp after the kids are all asleep...and old stories are told...you know the ones you never want your kids to hear...lol

To drag this more off-topic, in my opinion, the point of the 2nd amendment originally was to give private citizens a line of defense if their government was to become corrupt. I don't recall any of the founding fathers writing about our right to hunt. On the other hand, taking into consideration our modern nation-state, for the second amendment to be relevant in the way that it once was, we need the right to bear tanks, cruise missiles, sarin gas, etc. :naughty:

ebola
np: squarepusher

Shamus, maybe this year you could relight those memories and pull the family together again, maybe even just for one night, durring the holidays. Our family is so large we dont fit in a house esp with folks traveling from and wide. We pick a hotle/resort last year it was Frankenmuth MI, and get together there. It is not home and some of theat feeling is gone, but it is a great way to get together again...esp after the kids are all asleep...and old stories are told...you know the ones you never want your kids to hear...lol
When my Grandfather passed away, our Christmases fell apart. Certain people who would never cross him, and so had kept their grievances to themselves, let loose when he died. Much of what these people have said borders on outright hate. Certain family members aren’t speaking, and it gets worse every year. Even some people in my family who take most things on the chin without a problem, have had enough of said individuals. I couldn’t get them together even if I tried, and to be frank, there are some people I don’t care to ever see again. It was bad enough watching members of my immediate family get stabbed in the back by their own siblings, but when those same people did it to me as well , I lost any shred of respect I had left for them.

i encourage you research your calling into question my point about about some of the parents being vegan, they are, and have said it was one of the hardest things that they have had to deal with,

If they have children under thier control and they let them hunt as "dying wish" then they are not vegan. Strict vegetarian maybe, but letting your kids hunt is not exactly the actions of a vegan. Sorry for the off-topic, but just wanted to point it out.

I am not Christian, but I'm happy to participate in the whole gift giving and eating lots of food thing. My parents are Christians, and celebrate those aspects as well as the religious side.