Custody issues (advice please)

[Midnight Angel]

So, B (my boyfriend) is trying to get custody of his kids, and while waiting for that process, C (his ex) is refusing to let him see the girls, just because he has nothing to offer her. He is staying with a friend for now, and working as much as he can to keep sane. The only other thing that is keeping him sane, is me.

She has traded the girls for pick of the DVDs, she has traded the girls for the car, and she has traded the girls for food stamps. Yes, the last is illegal, but he didn't want to press charges, and now it's too late to change his mind. C has a shady history, and we honestly don't thinks she's going to get custody of the girls, since she is living in house meant for three people, and there's 7 people there. The social worker has okay-ed B's SIL's apartment where the girls will stay if/when he has the girls.

Is there ANY way to make her give him the girls, while waiting for a written consent order from the court? Him not having his girls is killing him, and I hate to see him like this. I know how much it hurts, and at this point I want to kill C (I also have a theory that if we stick her in a church, she will burst into flames-she's just that evil).

Any ideas/advice?

[dwnielsen]

What do the lawyers say?

[amhappy1]

I'm with dwnielsen. Even when parents like each other, custody matters bring out the worst in people quickly. I wouldn't do anything without a lawyer.

[julz]

Unless he can prove that she is unfit, it is going to be very difficult to get complete custody.

Is there already a visitation order in place? She cannot deny him visitation even if he owes her money if there is an order in place.

Is he giving her child support?

[dwnielsen]

We could sit here and 2nd-guess all day without knowing the personal history or the law, but unless we are custody attorneys, we won't know exactly how the system works in your region - while they study and use it all day long every day. An initial consultation is advised.

[Alicia Avocado]

I think he should go to a family mediator and work on some rules and boundaries. Plus, the courts usually tend to prefer the parent who encourages the 'working it out on their own' route rather than just running to a judge.

PS: I don't understand what you mean by 'trading' the girls for items like DVDs and food stamps?

[Kiz]

Get a lawyer or, at least, visit a community legal centre for advice. A community legal centre might be able to put you in touch with a mediator, too.


She has traded the girls for pick of the DVDs, she has traded the girls for the car, and she has traded the girls for food stamps. Yes, the last is illegal, but he didn't want to press charges, and now it's too late to change his mind
If she had done all that I'd contact the police, pronto. I don't know why you think only the last one is illegal and the others aren't, and I doubt your statute of limitations would have run out on any of those by now. Safety of the children would even rank over sanity of the boyfriend for me.

[das_nut]

Get a lawyer.

In practice, there is often a double standard when it comes to custody, where mothers are assumed to be good parents and fathers are not.

Hopefully she isn't vicious and evil enough to lodge a fake complaint of abuse. If she does, he could be screwed.

[hoodedclawjen]

i'm reading 'trading the children' as being a manipulation 'bf can visit them/take them out if she can have the dvd collection/his foodstamps/the car'... not that she's trading them out to random strangers for the same things... though my head did go the wrong way for a second. anyway, children aren't pawns. thats not cool.

[Midnight Angel]

What do the lawyers say?

He's talked to the lawyer, but I don't remember what they said. Brain is fuzzy at the moment.


Unless he can prove that she is unfit, it is going to be very difficult to get complete custody.

Is there already a visitation order in place? She cannot deny him visitation even if he owes her money if there is an order in place.

Is he giving her child support?

No, there's no WRITTEN visitation order present, and he doesn't owe her any money. The court said that he didn't have to give her any money or child support.


I think he should go to a family mediator and work on some rules and boundaries. Plus, the courts usually tend to prefer the parent who encourages the 'working it out on their own' route rather than just running to a judge.

PS: I don't understand what you mean by 'trading' the girls for items like DVDs and food stamps?

She gave him the girls at his week only if she could have the DVD's, the food stamps, car, etc... Does that make sense to you? Not sure if I'm wording it right.


Get a lawyer or, at least, visit a community legal centre for advice. A community legal centre might be able to put you in touch with a mediator, too.


[/COLOR]If she had done all that I'd contact the police, pronto. I don't know why you think only the last one is illegal and the others aren't, and I doubt your statute of limitations would have run out on any of those by now. Safety of the children would even rank over sanity of the boyfriend for me.

The girls vs. foodstamps is basically selling your kids, which in Oregon is illegal. I'm pretty sure it's illegal in other states too, but I'm not completely sure.


Get a lawyer.

In practice, there is often a double standard when it comes to custody, where mothers are assumed to be good parents and fathers are not.

Hopefully she isn't vicious and evil enough to lodge a fake complaint of abuse. If she does, he could be screwed.


She is vicious and evil enough to do that, but she's not smart enough to do that (she's honestly not all that bright). That double standard is the other way in Oregon, it's not a very mother-friendly state...

[Tori~CL]

No, there's no WRITTEN visitation order present, and he doesn't owe her any money. The court said that he didn't have to give her any money or child support.

I'm confused. If the court said he didn't have to give her child support, than there must be some kind of a legal document that would state something?? If there is not than she can legally do what she wants with the kids until he hires a lawyer and serves her papers. How old are the kids? Was there ever a time when they got along and shared the kids in a mature matter? Sorry if I missed something. :)

[Alicia Avocado]

She gave him the girls at his week only if she could have the DVD's, the food stamps, car, etc... Does that make sense to you? Not sure if I'm wording it right.

Ahhh now it makes sense :)

Yeah that is not appropriate. He should look into a firm custody agreement, that would make this whole thing a lot easier and make things easier to prove in court if it comes to that.

[Midnight Angel]

I'm confused. If the court said he didn't have to give her child support, than there must be some kind of a legal document that would state something?? If there is not than she can legally do what she wants with the kids until he hires a lawyer and serves her papers. How old are the kids? Was there ever a time when they got along and shared the kids in a mature matter? Sorry if I missed something. :)

I don't exactly get the whole child support thing. I'm not sure if it's because they were never married, or what. What really irks me is that she said she didn't want the kids when they talked about this awhile ago. He said he wanted the kids to live with him, and she could see them whenever she wanted. She said that was fine with her, and now she's pulling all this crap.


The girls are 4 and 2.


Most of this is ranting, and I want to thank you guys for listening and for the advice.

[Tori~CL]

I don't exactly get the whole child support thing. I'm not sure if it's because they were never married, or what. What really irks me is that she said she didn't want the kids when they talked about this awhile ago. He said he wanted the kids to live with him, and she could see them whenever she wanted. She said that was fine with her, and now she's pulling all this crap.


The girls are 4 and 2.


Most of this is ranting, and I want to thank you guys for listening and for the advice.

aawh, I feel for the kids. Okay I have a question that might be off the wall, but curious. Did she start pulling crap when you came into his life? Does she know about you? I've dealt with child custody stuff and know many people that have. I know there is so many different issues, stories and laws. It's really a tuff situation to be in and can be such an on going battle. It sucks when a parent uses a child as a pawn.

If I was you I would start asking your boyfriend some serious questions because obviously you are drug into it emotionally and want to support him. My best advice though is for him and her to sit down together and try to work this out for the sake of the kids, come to some kind of terms and get it legal on paper if possible. It will save thousands on lawyers and court fees. I know not everyone can do this...but sometimes it can be possible for each to humble themselves and try to work it out, outside of court. :)

[dwnielsen]

I don't exactly get the whole child support thing. I'm not sure if it's because they were never married, or what. What really irks me is that she said she didn't want the kids when they talked about this awhile ago. He said he wanted the kids to live with him, and she could see them whenever she wanted. She said that was fine with her, and now she's pulling all this crap.


The girls are 4 and 2.


Most of this is ranting, and I want to thank you guys for listening and for the advice.

If she's taken care of the kids for 4 years of her life basically by herself (and birthed them), then that is going to be a huge upset no matter what she's said.
She has someone in the new household who is calling her evil and stupid. Had you children, would you want to give them to a situation like that?
As for the food stamps, she may actually need them to take care of the children - you know, to feed them - if that's all she can get.

Now, I don't know how she's doing things. It may be completely f'd up. Sounds like it is. All I can say is, it sounds like you and dad should be able to become much more involved. That's awesome that you both are willing. :)

I think you should both go to counseling, as should the kids' biomom. The kids are old enough really to absorb this situation. You, dad, and the kids' biomom have got to have some kind of understanding for the kids' sake. If she has been the primary caretaker for a long time, then, short of calling charges with DHR, I don't see any other route - esp not a healthy one.

Also, counseling is extremely important for you in this situation, whether with others or by yourself. There has got to be a place where you can all learn to communicate in healthy ways, and where you can really go through the internal process of what you want out of all this.

Sorry if I'm making too many assumptions. Just wanted to add some input.

[Midnight Angel]

aawh, I feel for the kids. Okay I have a question that might be off the wall, but curious. Did she start pulling crap when you came into his life? Does she know about you? I've dealt with child custody stuff and know many people that have. I know there is so many different issues, stories and laws. It's really a tuff situation to be in and can be such an on going battle. It sucks when a parent uses a child as a pawn.

If I was you I would start asking your boyfriend some serious questions because obviously you are drug into it emotionally and want to support him. My best advice though is for him and her to sit down together and try to work this out for the sake of the kids, come to some kind of terms and get it legal on paper if possible. It will save thousands on lawyers and court fees. I know not everyone can do this...but sometimes it can be possible for each to humble themselves and try to work it out, outside of court. :)

She does know about me, but she's never met me (I can't say I'm excited to meet her eventually either). He does want to sit down and talk to her, but every time they do that, it's basically her yelling at him, and then stomping off.


If she's taken care of the kids for 4 years of her life basically by herself (and birthed them), then that is going to be a huge upset no matter what she's said.
She has someone in the new household who is calling her evil and stupid. Had you children, would you want to give them to a situation like that?
As for the food stamps, she may actually need them to take care of the children - you know, to feed them - if that's all she can get.

Now, I don't know how she's doing things. It may be completely f'd up. Sounds like it is. All I can say is, it sounds like you and dad should be able to become much more involved. That's awesome that you both are willing. :)

I think you should both go to counseling, as should the kids' biomom. The kids are old enough really to absorb this situation. You, dad, and the kids' biomom have got to have some kind of understanding for the kids' sake. If she has been the primary caretaker for a long time, then, short of calling charges with DHR, I don't see any other route - esp not a healthy one.

Also, counseling is extremely important for you in this situation, whether with others or by yourself. There has got to be a place where you can all learn to communicate in healthy ways, and where you can really go through the internal process of what you want out of all this.

Sorry if I'm making too many assumptions. Just wanted to add some input.

I'm going to number things, just to make it easier (I always feel like people get defensive when listing numbers, but I'm not getting defensive-just hopefully making it easier to read).

1) She can't get food stamps because she's living in a household of 7, 3 of them have full-time jobs, and one of them already has food stamps. DHS has to take that into consideration, so she can't get anything from food stamps.

2) Brian and I are long-term, and I want him to get the kids. I've seen how he is with the kids, and without the kids. I'm glad you think it's awesome that we both want this.

3) She hasn't been the primary caretaker EVER. After the girls were born, BRIAN got up in the middle of the night and fed them. He was basically mommy and daddy.

I know calling her stupid and evil isn't nice, but honestly, she is. She's using her kids as pawns, she's taking away anything that means something from Brian, she's even sabotaging her best friends wedding just to get at him. Brian called her to talk to the girls, and she gave him 30 seconds. She told everybody that asked that Brian refused to take the kids. She told Brian that he could have the girls on his days off, and then when he tries to get them, she says he can't have them. She's told the school that Brian can't pick up Cheyanne (his oldest girl) from school, even though he's perfectly capable of doing so. If that's not evil, I don't know what is.

[dwnielsen]

Well, if she doesn't have food stamps and Brian isn't giving her anything, the kids still need to eat - so to be honest that makes more sense now.

Does Brian have evidence or respectable witnesses that he has been the primary caretaker? That should make it easier, I would imagine.

As for stopping him from picking Cheyanne up from school, that doesn't seem evil - that could be problematic if they are not communicating well and getting into arguments over the kids. A person needs to know where the child they are responsible for is at all times, and from what I understand she is responsible for them right now.

I have no idea about the other stuff, like what the part about the wedding means, but your arguments seem valid. She seems to have spite and to be reactionary. Counseling would be great for solving the yelling and stomping off problem. If she refuses, it's something documented to show your effort. Have you or Brian documented cases of abuse or willful neglect? Do you have witnesses? I don't know the courts, but I would think Brian can do well here.

My sister was in a similar situation, with one adopted daughter who still lives with her. She actually let the biomom live with her (wth?! I tried to warn her). Her boyfriend was worse than Brian sounds, though (I could submit evidence, but the list might expend the page). I don't really know how she worked it out, but seems to be doing pretty well now, though she works nearly all the time.