Splitting from here: http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?p=261022#post261022

Reparations: giving people money to compensate for suffering by their ancestors.

I'm not american, so where did this idea come from?

1- Do you think it is a good idea?

2- Will it help the people who get it, and it what way?

3- How much should people get?

(There are about 35 milion blacks in america, that would be about 15% of the population.)

No, I don't think it's a good idea. Everybody has ancestors who suffered in some way, but they're not trying to seek financial gain over it. That's like me trying to get money because my great-great-great grandfather fought in war and died. This is not logical. I regret that African-Americans suffered, but the present population is not responsible for the past actions of other people.

I think that every surviving former slave should be entitled to reparations and that it should be collected prorata from every surviving former slaveholder. Otherwise the issue should expire along with the folks who were actually involved with it.

My point is that it is inconceivable in other areas of the law that descendants are held liable for the actions of their ancestors, and that this is certainly no different. :tired:

I agree with Bank. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I think that every surviving former slave should be entitled to reparations and that it should be collected prorata from every surviving former slaveholder. Otherwise the issue should expire along with the folks who were actually involved with it.

My point is that it is inconceivable in other areas of the law that descendants are held liable for the actions of their ancestors, and that this is certainly no different. :tired:

So in plain in english: you think people now have no right to compensation unless they have worked as slave themselves. ?

Slave as in "owned by a other (white) person" not as "working for microsoft" :D

[QUOTE=1vegan]Splitting from here: http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?p=261022#post261022

Reparations: giving people money to compensate for suffering by their ancestors.

I'm not american, so where did this idea come from?
QUOTE]

what nationality are you?

I to agree with bank, for if being related to some one who was enslaved is entitlement to the money from a slave owners decendants money..or gov money for that matter. A president of huge proportion would be set, allowing me and other who can prove our families were wrongfully pursicuted by the church, toturtured in the name of God, adn holdings siezed by the church, taxed with out representaion by the church are entiled to all money in return, land adn properity.....no more church. Further slaves were not only held in this nation but all nations...what about those nations, slaves were often split up and shiped to various points on the compas...are they do to "pay" restituion. Appologies have been made, that is about all there will be and needs to be.

He's Alfeneese!....hahaha :lol:

Everybody knows Alf is from Melmac. :yes:

We talked about this in one of my classes. There have been only two reparations done by the US- to American Indians (not sure of the details, but it was for something specific) and the Japanese due to the internment camps. In both cases the passage of time was short, it was easy to find either someone living or a close relative, and there were specific monetary things being compensated for which would be easier to define and quantify. Such as time off from work, land, etc.

There are other problems with the reparations for slavery that would have to be decided?
1)who is compensated? Only decendents? How is that decided? Who is black? What about the many white slaves (indentured servants?) How do we define slavery? How do we define race?
2)what real damages are there, how can the damages caused by slavery be differenciated from damages due to racism? Should we compare how well off people are now after ancestors being slaves vs. if their ancestors had never come to the US? It's impossible to calculate and define.
3)What form of reparations- money? services? apology?
I doubt money would actually help anyone long term. Services are problematic bc would community services only serve certain people and deny others who are also poor or minorities, etc?
4) Will reparations be used as an excuse by whites to say, well, "now we're even? don't ask for anything else?" therefore an argument against funding for poor urban areas, etc.?
5) Would reparations increase racism and hostility by other races who feel their tax money is going for something they are not responsible for?
6) What about reparations for other groups? Immigrants which we still rely heavily on today for very cheap labor (illegal ones), women, Chinese? Irish?

I also want to point out that the idea of just handing out money is not what many people propose. There are a variety of ideas, and even within the black community the idea is very controversial.

[QUOTE=1vegan]Splitting from here: http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?p=261022#post261022

Reparations: giving people money to compensate for suffering by their ancestors.

I'm not american, so where did this idea come from?
QUOTE]

what nationality are you?
1vegan is Dutch, right?

1vegan is Dutch, right?

:yes:

On a side note: I thought Germany is planning to pay the people who where forced to work in their factory's in ww2.
But they only pay to the people them selves that are still alive.

I'm generally opposed to paying reparations to descendents of those who were wronged in some way. I don't disagree with the reparations paid to the Japanese and Native Americans b/c that money went to the people who were directly harmed by the government's actions and, as Thalia said, it was easier to quantify time lost from work, property, etc.

That being said, a case can be made that many African Americans still living have been directly harmed by the government's actions. It wasn't so long ago that many African Americans were kept from voting or attending the school of their choice or receiving adequate medical care based on their skin color. However, I think that is due more to racism than to a far-ranging, institutionalized atrocity such as slavery or internment camps and I don't think a chunk of cash is going to eliminate racism. I'd much rather see money going to programs for housing and education and programs that help to combat racism.

Should women be paid raparations by men? Not so long ago they weren't allowed to vote. There was a time when they weren't allowed to work, own land, heck even a woman driving was looked down upon. I'm still hitting glass ceilings here at work. I think we should be paid too, don't you?

This is interesting in where to you draw the line on which groups are paid. And who makes the payments?

So in plain in english: you think people now have no right to compensation unless they have worked as slave themselves. ?

Slave as in "owned by a other (white) person" not as "working for microsoft" :D


Y E S

Should women be paid raparations by men? Not so long ago they weren't allowed to vote. There was a time when they weren't allowed to work, own land, heck even a woman driving was looked down upon. I'm still hitting glass ceilings here at work. I think we should be paid too, don't you?


I don't want a check from the government simply because I'm a woman. I'm not opposed to programs that help women out--such as combatting sexism in the workplace or making maternity leave mandatory (I'm a big fan of FMLA) or guaranteeing that every woman can have regular mammograms. If all the women were rounded up and held in internment camps then hell yes, I'd want a check to make up for lost pay. If a company is found to be paying it's women employees less than it's men employees for equal work, then hell yes, I think those women should get a check from that company to even the score.

You raise a good point, Ruthie. How do we decide who has been harmed and who hasn't? That's why the issue of reparations is so controversial.

If there were reparations it should be in the form of programs, educational opportunities, etc. But those things should be done anyway. If we try to help to make sure there are equal opportunities for everyone as far as health care, education, and jobs, then you don't have to pick out which groups deserve what, do it for people who need it, and for the benefit of the society as a whole.

Even in the 70's employment ads were divided into men and women's jobs, and women and especially pregnant women had greater restrictions on what kind of work, how many hours, etc. Black men gained the right to vote before women (so in effect, right to vote for blacks only meant for half of the blacks). While black were bought and sold, often women were considered property passed from father to husband. Not arguing for reparations for women, but want to keep this all in perspective. It seems in general in America, we are more comfortable talking about racism than sexism.

Also, Chinese and other Asians were victims of lots of discrimination. They were used for cheap labor and then when times got tough, they were blamed for disease and prevented from being hired many places. Thus many of them got into their own businesses, forming the stereotype of the Asian restaurant and laundromat owners. But Asians are now considered a "model minority" and racism against Asians is rarely discussed. (only mentioning this because I recently did a project where I had to read a lot about Asian Americans)

If there were reparations it should be in the form of programs, educational opportunities, etc. But those things should be done anyway. If we try to help to make sure there are equal opportunities for everyone as far as health care, education, and jobs, then you don't have to pick out which groups deserve what, do it for people who need it, and for the benefit of the society as a whole.


Well said, Thalia.

[QUOTE=American]A president of huge proportion QUOTE]

Do you mean like Grover Cleveland? Wasn't he the guy who got stuck in the Whitehouse bathtub? Or was it Taft?

I graduated with a 4.0 on a 4.0 scale and did not receive a single scholarship. Granted, I wasn't in sports, but I had to support myself and worked after school and on weekends. My point is that I wasn't offered a scholarship, didn't have any scholarship to apply to, and yet there were and are scholarships all over the place for minorities. Should I cry discrimination because I'm white and didn't receive anything? No, I'm not going to; I'm going to hold my head high and be proud of myself because I put myself through college.

When I waitressed, I was subject to discrimination from black people all the time; they couldn't stand me simply because of the color of my skin. If that's the reparation they want, to now treat white people like crap for no reason, then that's their prerogative, I guess. And I do think that the minorities receive more educational programs and scholarships than the white students. It isn't right, but no one is complaining and demanding retribution for that.

I graduated with a 4.0 on a 4.0 scale and did not receive a single scholarship. Granted, I wasn't in sports, but I had to support myself and worked after school and on weekends. My point is that I wasn't offered a scholarship, didn't have any scholarship to apply to, and yet there were and are scholarships all over the place for minorities. Should I cry discrimination because I'm white and didn't receive anything? No, I'm not going to; I'm going to hold my head high and be proud of myself because I put myself through college.

When I waitressed, I was subject to discrimination from black people all the time; they couldn't stand me simply because of the color of my skin. If that's the reparation they want, to now treat white people like crap for no reason, then that's their prerogative, I guess. And I do think that the minorities receive more educational programs and scholarships than the white students. It isn't right, but no one is complaining and demanding retribution for that.

Umm, bulls***! You poor, poor white person! Let us all grieve for the downtrodden white folk who suffer from discrimination in this country. When are THEY going to get their's, that's what I want to know. It's way past due.

Give me a freaking break.

Do a little research, please. Prove to us that minorities get more scholarships than whites. I guarantee you that white people get far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far more money and scholarships for college. Then, do a little more research. Look at the economic disparity between the races in this country. The gap is huge and it is real. A little more research on your part will show that there is a disparity between the percentage of white people who go to college and the percentage of minorities who go to college. There's a reason those minority scholarships are out there--it's because some minorities just plain need the money for college. And some generous people out there are trying to make it so that more minorities get to go to college (how dare they!). There's a reason no one is complaining about this so called discrimination (except that YOU are complaining and I hear that exact same bull**** line from many of the white people I know): the real discrimination goes the other way.

If you want some pity though, here's some: Awwwww... you poor, poor white person. You've got it so bad here. You had to pay for your own college tuition? That's an outrage! You poor, poor white person.

Sidebar: I also had a 4.0 in high school and I received plenty of scholarships. There were literally hundreds to apply for, so I appled for a dozen or so and I received a few of them. My college (O.S.U.) gave me quite a lot of free money every year on top of those independent scholarships. All colleges give away lots of free money every year. And believe it or not, I'm white. I guess there must have been some kind of clerical error, huh? That money was supposed to go to a minority? Sorry, but you are full of it. There are plenty of scholarships out there, even for white people (Gasp!)!

[QUOTE=Artichoke47]
When I waitressed, I was subject to discrimination from black people all the time; they couldn't stand me simply because of the color of my skin. If that's the reparation they want, to now treat white people like crap for no reason, then that's their prerogative, I guess. [QUOTE]

Here's a little nugget that reveals more about yourself than you probably intended. Nice generalization. All your black customers treated you like crap, huh? Bull****! None of your black customers could stand you, huh? And that was because they were black? Based on your post, I'm quite certain that many of your customers couldn't stand you, but it doesn't have anything to do with you being white. If it makes you feel any better, chalk me up as a WHITE person who can't stand you.

Hey, let's discuss this without getting personal.

But I agree that artichoke did make a pretty sweeping statement about her customers. Pretty big assumption.

I think that every surviving former slave should be entitled to reparations and that it should be collected prorata from every surviving former slaveholder. Otherwise the issue should expire along with the folks who were actually involved with it.

My point is that it is inconceivable in other areas of the law that descendants are held liable for the actions of their ancestors, and that this is certainly no different. :tired:

:up: I agree, and couldn't have said it better myself.

It's my understanding that Germany is still paying reparations with respect to the atrocities committed during the Third Reich. I throw this out for purposes of discussion; how do you differentiate?