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stonecrest
10-14-03, 12:15 AM
http://news.independent.co.uk/low_res/story.jsp?story=452375&host=3&dir=75


US soldiers bulldoze farmers' crops
By Patrick Cockburn in Dhuluaya
12 October 2003


US soldiers driving bulldozers, with jazz blaring from loudspeakers, have uprooted ancient groves of date palms as well as orange and lemon trees in central Iraq as part of a new policy of collective punishment of farmers who do not give information about guerrillas attacking US troops.

The stumps of palm trees, some 70 years old, protrude from the brown earth scoured by the bulldozers beside the road at Dhuluaya, a small town 50 miles north of Baghdad. Local women were yesterday busily bundling together the branches of the uprooted orange and lemon trees and carrying then back to their homes for firewood.

Nusayef Jassim, one of 32 farmers who saw their fruit trees destroyed, said: "They told us that the resistance fighters hide in our farms, but this is not true. They didn't capture anything. They didn't find any weapons."

Other farmers said that US troops had told them, over a loudspeaker in Arabic, that the fruit groves were being bulldozed to punish the farmers for not informing on the resistance which is very active in this Sunni Muslim district.

"They made a sort of joke against us by playing jazz music while they were cutting down the trees," said one man. Ambushes of US troops have taken place around Dhuluaya. But Sheikh Hussein Ali Saleh al-Jabouri, a member of a delegation that went to the nearby US base to ask for compensation for the loss of the fruit trees, said American officers described what had happened as "a punishment of local people because 'you know who is in the resistance and do not tell us'." What the Israelis had done by way of collective punishment of Palestinians was now happening in Iraq, Sheikh Hussein added.

The destruction of the fruit trees took place in the second half of last month but, like much which happens in rural Iraq, word of what occurred has only slowly filtered out. The destruction of crops took place along a kilometre-long stretch of road just after it passes over a bridge.

Farmers say that 50 families lost their livelihoods, but a petition addressed to the coalition forces in Dhuluaya pleading in erratic English for compensation, lists only 32 people. The petition says: "Tens of poor families depend completely on earning their life on these orchards and now they became very poor and have nothing and waiting for hunger and death."

The children of one woman who owned some fruit trees lay down in front of a bulldozer but were dragged away, according to eyewitnesses who did not want to give their names. They said that one American soldier broke down and cried during the operation. When a reporter from the newspaper Iraq Today attempted to take a photograph of the bulldozers at work a soldier grabbed his camera and tried to smash it. The same paper quotes Lt Col Springman, a US commander in the region, as saying: "We asked the farmers several times to stop the attacks, or to tell us who was responsible, but the farmers didn't tell us."

Informing US troops about the identity of their attackers would be extremely dangerous in Iraqi villages, where most people are related and everyone knows each other. The farmers who lost their fruit trees all belong to the Khazraji tribe and are unlikely to give information about fellow tribesmen if they are, in fact, attacking US troops.

Asked how much his lost orchard was worth, Nusayef Jassim said in a distraught voice: "It is as if someone cut off my hands and you asked me how much my hands were worth."

Kiz
10-14-03, 01:23 AM
I'd already read this, and it made me sick to my stomach. This was just plain cruel and unneccessary. And what's with the jazz?

epski
10-14-03, 01:46 AM
It's called terrorism

majake
10-14-03, 01:47 AM
Jazz is terrorism? Don't let Epi hear you say that.

Epinephrine
10-14-03, 02:07 AM
:eek: :confused: AAAAAAAARRRRRRRHHHHHHHHH!! :sealed:

:p it was probably kenny g., he's pure evil :devil:

anyway.. the whole thing sounds very sadistic :(

epski
10-14-03, 02:17 AM
Jazz is terrorism? Don't let Epi hear you say that.

Oh, I love jazz, but it's all about context, majake. ;)

goatee
10-14-03, 02:40 AM
If you think that story is evil I've got another one even worse. It's worse because on the outside the US soldiers looked good but they were doing something not so good.

This was in Haiti a few years back now. Maybe 10 years ago. The US wanted to undermine the local initiatives. During the harvest season the US decided to hire any local people who wanted to work to do roadwork and such. This way the farmers would not be able to get their food harvested and it would spoil out on the land. The US would offer pay that would seem very high in this very poor country. When the harvest season was over the US paid jobs were over too.
So on the outside it looked like the US was helping the people out by hiring them for these jobs but the real story was much different.

Why do they keep doing this?????????

soilman
10-14-03, 04:09 AM
If someone stole food from my garden because they were hungry and couldn't get food any other way, I wouldn't react much. But if someone were to bulldoze any part of my garden, for any reason, and I knew for sure who it was, I would do my best to kill them, even if it meant me losing my life in retaliation. Actually, I wouldn't kill them; I would chain them down and perform a pre-frontal lobotomy on them; I'd probably want to drill some little tiny holes in their teeth too, and put tobasco sauce in the holes.

Walter
10-14-03, 04:20 AM
Hmmm...

What we have here is a surprising post by Soilman, folks. :p

majake
10-14-03, 04:29 AM
soilman is very passionate about his food.

soilman
10-14-03, 04:29 AM
After I did the lobotomies, I'd hook them up to a bicycle-style operated electric generator, and use their muscle power to generate electricity for me. I would draw off small amounts of electricty to give their legs little shocks in the right spot to get their muscles to do the pedalling, so they would have to pedal no matter what, and it would not matter what they thought about pedalling, or whether they wanted to pedal or not. Rather than have their feet on top of the pedals, I would devise pedal-axles that went right thru ball bearings that were permanently embedded in holes drilled thru their shin-bones. They wouldn't need their feet at all so I'd just cut them off. I'd feed them mashed potatoes mixed with water, via a tube going down their esophagus into their stomach, and sewn in place (and possibly rivited in spots) so they'd have energy to pedal, and make a stoma for excreting feces so they'd never have to get off the bicyles. I'd attach a tube to the stoma leading right to the sewer or septic tank.

Walter
10-14-03, 05:30 AM
:eek: :lol:

1vegan
10-14-03, 05:43 AM
Yes, this will certainly make them sympatise with the "coalition forces".

Fenguin
10-14-03, 08:24 AM
This sounds frighteningly similar to some Israeli 'collective punishment' tactics where they bulldoze down rows of trees ostensibly to prevent snipers from hiding by them. I've heard that the military in Iraq has modeled their occupation after Israel, but if they're really taken it this far, it's time to head to Canada.

1vegan
10-14-03, 08:35 AM
I thought the "coalition forces" where going to bring "democracy" to Iraq.

Nice kind of democracy.....

Skylark
10-14-03, 11:15 AM
Democracy isn´t about being nice, at least not according to my poli sci prof. Some democracies are oligarchical, and only the elite get a vote. Sounds like the kind of democracy that the US tends to export.

American
10-14-03, 01:06 PM
If you think that story is evil I've got another one even worse. It's worse because on the outside the US soldiers looked good but they were doing something not so good.

This was in Haiti a few years back now. Maybe 10 years ago. The US wanted to undermine the local initiatives. During the harvest season the US decided to hire any local people who wanted to work to do roadwork and such. This way the farmers would not be able to get their food harvested and it would spoil out on the land. The US would offer pay that would seem very high in this very poor country. When the harvest season was over the US paid jobs were over too.
So on the outside it looked like the US was helping the people out by hiring them for these jobs but the real story was much different.

Why do they keep doing this?????????

Abusrde two things i have read
A i wa in Haiti at the time this "story" came out and the roads were dirst and been potholed so badly by rain that travel inconsivable, the army corp of enginers employed local hatians to tech them to repair and maintain the roads. the crops were sacrificed in any way.
Secondly in the report about the bull dozers and tree rmoval. this area had had a diversifyed mine field in place, after clearing the mines with vehicells, mine swwepers move through, eod removes and destroys these mines, then dozers doze the area to look for the little buggers we call kid killers made of plastics and other nondetecable casings. the media will put out anything even when it is only partial truths, give the american soldier some ethical credit poeple for Gods sake please, it is the duty of every soldier to not follow those orders which are unethical.

American
10-14-03, 01:16 PM
This sounds frighteningly similar to some Israeli 'collective punishment' tactics where they bulldoze down rows of trees ostensibly to prevent snipers from hiding by them. I've heard that the military in Iraq has modeled their occupation after Israel, but if they're really taken it this far, it's time to head to Canada.

probably a good idea since Canadian snipers are the best in the world, holding every major record including longest verifyed shot of 2843m with a 12.7mm Tac 50.
A navy that is nearly beyond reproach dumping paint and bumping bilges into halfax harbor..not to mention the city recieved 1.4 billion to correct the cities pumping of raw sewage in to this harbor and isteaded of repairing the problem built a mall and expanded the city. that is a palce i want to be snif snif
i dont like some of what canida has become, the wilderness is great..the cities i dont care much for.

Kurmudgeon
10-14-03, 08:20 PM
Now US Forces are in Iraq we see a definite link between Iraq and terrorism.

alterego
10-15-03, 11:55 AM
Being as I am not religious and I am in the Navy my opinion probably does not matter here, but I do remember learning this in philosophy class and I agree with it.

Deuteronomy 20:19 (http://www.bible.org/cgi-bin/netbible.pl?book=deu&chapter=20)

If you besiege a city for a long time while fighting against it to capture it, you must not chop down its trees, for you may eat from them and should not cut them down. A tree in the field is not human, that you should besiege it.

Seems to fit in quite nicely here =)

American
10-15-03, 06:36 PM
Being as I am not religious and I am in the Navy my opinion probably does not matter here, but I do remember learning this in philosophy class and I agree with it.

Deuteronomy 20:19 (http://www.bible.org/cgi-bin/netbible.pl?book=deu&chapter=20)



Seems to fit in quite nicely here =)
So 80+billion dollars to rebuild a nation so that they may be free to decern ther own future is the Planting of an awful lot of trees, not to mention 800 millinon of that is slated for the restoration of wetlands.

I prefer 20:20 my self
Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.
Yet another is Baltasar Gracian
They who have done the least make the greatest to-do of what they done! A quirk in their character venerates the simplest deed they preform, and everything is made to appearmaverous. Even when speaking of others, self-applause is apparent in the them of praises they sing. Conceit is always frownd upon, and those who crow like a rooster only succed in aggracation the hearing of those whom they try to impress. real achievement needs no so s¨ch affection. rejoice in the Fulfillment of what you do, and leave talk to others. Aspire to be heroic without calling for heavenly choir to herald your accomplishment.

There is no greater frustration that to be heard adn not understood, to have words of passion fallon deaf ears. More cherished is the thoughtfull "yes" of but one intelgent man than the shouts and appleause of a whole arena

1vegan
10-16-03, 05:37 AM
So 80+billion dollars to rebuild a nation so that they may be free to decern ther own future is the Planting of an awful lot of trees, not to mention 800 millinon of that is slated for the restoration of wetlands.



You tell that to the guy that walks into the nearest American ambasady with a bag full of dynamite.

American
10-16-03, 03:29 PM
You tell that to the guy that walks into the nearest American ambasady with a bag full of dynamite.
I dont think he would have the time, as Godless individuals who comite acts of terror against a civilian population, or any population are with out honor.

Since the begining of time people have had Gods to explian what they do not understand. AS we gain understanding of our world and universe, the numbers of those God has dwindeled. Just as these terrorist who will not accept what is right will dwindle...our efforts are just speeding up the process.

alterego
10-17-03, 04:50 AM
So 80+billion dollars to rebuild a nation so that they may be free to decern ther own future is the Planting of an awful lot of trees, not to mention 800 millinon of that is slated for the restoration of wetlands.


Perhaps you missed the OP?

US soldiers driving bulldozers, with jazz blaring from loudspeakers, have uprooted ancient groves of date palms as well as orange and lemon trees in central Iraq as part of a new policy of collective punishment of farmers who do not give information about guerrillas attacking US troops.

They are punishing a poor starving nation by bulldozing their crops when they misbehave. :stinkeye:

Kurmudgeon
10-17-03, 05:13 AM
Since the begining of time people have had Gods to explian what they do not understand.

We need a God to explain your typing.