OK so what do you guys think about his recent admission to be addicted to prescription painkillers? There's even a criminal investigation against him because of his possible involvement in a drug ring.

Though he is too right on the political map for my taste, I certainly wish him well and that he can come clean and end his addiction.

However, the irony is hard to miss. Al Franken, one of his sworn enemies was all too glad to quote him on CNN just one day after his admission. While Franken could have displayed more tactfullness, in the end he just repeated Limbaugh's own words:

"Too many whites are getting away with drug use. The answer is to find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them, and send them up the river.”

Could this be something like a wake up call for (right wing and moralistic-preachy) America that something is awfully wrong in the way drugs (and addicts) are seen and treated in their worldview? Could this trigger a shift to more compassion towards addicts (instead of locking them up) and give an incentive to rethink the (insane and by large ineffective) War on Drugs?

Or will this only confirm people to continue pouring money into it - even more money, since this one hit so close to home?

not to defend him, but that rush limbaugh quote is from 1995, 8 years ago. in addition, i certainly find there to be a big difference between prescription drugs (which you begin taking on the advice of a medical professional) and heroin and similar substances (which no one ever advises to take).

i also think that it's important to note that he is taking full responsibility for his actions.

"I am not making any excuses. You know, over the years athletes and celebrities have emerged from treatment centers to great fanfare and praise for conquering great demons. They are said to be great role models and examples for others. Well, I am no role model. I refuse to let anyone think I am doing something great here, when there are people you never hear about, who face long odds and never resort to such escapes. They are the role models. I am no victim and do not portray myself as such. I take full responsibility for my problem."

i certainly don't agree with many of his right-wing views either but i've been very impressed with the way he has handled himself.

as for the rethinking of our outlook on drugs, one can only hope. i think the best chances of this happening would be if the authorities finish their investigation and end up sending him to jail.

not to defend him

That's not necessary since I didn't attack his person. :)


but that rush limbaugh quote is from 1995, 8 years ago.

His (public) views didn't change since then. If at all, they got more extreme toward drugs and addicts.


in addition, i certainly find there to be a big difference between prescription drugs (which you begin taking on the advice of a medical professional) and heroin and similar substances (which no one ever advises to take).

Sure, you think so, but certainly not the right wingers I was referring to (Rush included). They want to (and do) send people like him to jail. Hopefully this story will change their views.


i also think that it's important to note that he is taking full responsibility for his actions.

I think that this, while meant to be noble, is just stupid, and shows that he is confused about the topic of drugs, even when it's his own case and life. He cannot take full responsibility, since his addiction began when he was taking painkillers, prescribed by his physician, after an unsuccessful back surgery. He is not fully responsible for his addiction. I see him more as a victim than a criminal. To be honest, his lack of compassion toward himself scares me!!


i certainly don't agree with many of his right-wing views either but i've been very impressed with the way he has handled himself.

I say let's wait and see. All he did was to read a statement (which, granted, required courage and determination). But he still has to go through rehab. I will be impressed when he's back on air, clean, and has a different attitude toward drug addicts.


as for the rethinking of our outlook on drugs, one can only hope. i think the best chances of this happening would be if the authorities finish their investigation and end up sending him to jail.

Hehe. :)

That's not necessary since I didn't attack his person. :)
i know, i just wanted to make it very apparent that i am not a rush limbaugh supporter ;)
Sure, you think so, but certainly not the right wingers I was referring to (Rush included). They want to (and do) send people like him to jail. Hopefully this story will change their views.
although i haven't researched it, i was unaware that the war on drugs involves those who become addicted to prescription drugs. and even if it is true, which it very well may be, this surely isn't the focus of the action.
I think that this, while meant to be noble, is just stupid, and shows that he is confused about the topic of drugs, even when it's his own case and life. He cannot take full responsibility, since his addiction began when he was taking painkillers, prescribed by his physician, after an unsuccessful back surgery. He is not fully responsible for his addiction. I see him more as a victim than a criminal. To be honest, his lack of compassion toward himself scares me!!
hehe.. well, i feel that this needs to be broken down into two different situations. one is where people choose to take addicting substances on their own accord. these people, i believe, are 100% responsible for their actions and are victims of these actions and nothing more (is this going back to the 'is addiction a choice?' thread?). on the other hand, when we're talking about someone who becomes addicted to a substance that he/she is administered by a doctor, the responsibility becomes blurred. since it is my opinion that addiction is a choice, i stand by my original statement that i am impressed with what he has said: i am not a victim, i am responsible, and so on. if he has walked the path and makes this statement, he is either very stupid, as you believe, or he has a firsthand account to back up his beliefs, which i would say makes the position even stronger.

Limb admits to buying drugs illegally. Getting prescription-type drugs, wihout visiting a doctor and without getting a prescription. You would think that someone with the contacts he must have, and with medically verifiable injury to his spine, would have been easily able to find a doctor to legally prescribe any drugs he needs. Something doesn't make sense here.

While getting such drugs legally is hard for people who (1) poor, and (2) whose pain doesn't show up clearly as having a physical reason, in objective scientific tests (this is quite common in people who have legitimate pain -- for the cause of the pain not to show up in x-rays etc), it shouldn't have been a problem for Limb. I don't get it. He both had x-ray verifiable herniated disks in his spine, known to be often painful, and was a rich man with lots of friends and contacts. He could have found a doctor. He didn't need to buy drugs illegally -- at a greater expense I might add.

He had, and still has, a legitimate reason for taking the drugs he was taking -- but that he denies -- he insists he is an "addict" rather than a legit pain patient. Again -- makes no effin sense.

Oatmeal wrote, "To be honest, his lack of compassion toward himself scares me!!"

I just think it is an act. I mean how could he suddenly become a "whiner" when he speaks every day about personal responsibility etc. If you are poor, it's your own fault...

When you become as powerful as Rush, you don't have to whine anymore (well not in public, anyway) you can simply fire people or higher yourself a dandy attorney.

Looks like his owning up to this will gain him respect and sympathy...but, not mine.

In my opinion, Rush is a hypocrite.

Limb admits to buying drugs illegally. Getting prescription-type drugs, wihout visiting a doctor and without getting a prescription. You would think that someone with the contacts he must have, and with medically verifiable injury to his spine, would have been easily able to find a doctor to legally prescribe any drugs he needs. Something doesn't make sense here.


Rush was taking an exorbitant amount of at least two types of painkillers. One, Oxycoton, is notorious for its relatively short effectiveness period. One must take more and more of the drug over a rather short period of time in order to experience even moderate pain killing effectiveness. Some abusers of this drug take upwards of ten pills at one time.

If a doctor were to prescribe so large an amount of the drugs Rush was abusing red flags would be raised everywhere. Pharmacies are required by law to report unusually large or odd prescriptions under pain of legal prosecution, and Rush's demands would surely have raised suspicion.

As far as abusing prescription drugs goes, once someone begins to disregard the recommended dosage amounts, they are abusing a drug. If Rush were as anti-drug and all-fired "good" as he has set himself up to be, he would have notified his physician the moment he noticed that he must take many more pills than prescribed in order to experience pain relief. These things are not so black and white; the far right would do well to to bear that in mind while they're beating their collective chests about how good and pure they and their notions are.

I was sorry to hear about Rush's addiction and wish him well. Having numerous alcoholics and junkies in my family I know what an uphill battle he faces. Being "Rush Limbaugh" sure won't make any aspect of it one bit easier, of that I'm certain.

Quizeen says:
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Oxycoton, is notorious for its relatively short effectiveness period.
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??? oxycontin is simply oxycodone in extended release formulation. You take one pill every 8 hours i think it is, or maybe 12 hours -- instead of one every 4 hours. Instead of taking 5 mg every 4 hours, you may take one pill containing 15 mg, and it lasts 12 hours (or 10 mg to last 8 hours). Now if instead of swallowing the pill as directed, you chewed it up, you'd get all 15 mg at once: this would be drug abuse, not taking the med as directed.

Oxycodone is the very safe and effective opioid in percodan and percocet. Pain patients rarely develop a tolerence. Their are 1000's of pain patients who have been taking the same exact dose of opioids including oxycodone, for the same chronic pain, for 15 years, 20 years.

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Rush was taking an exorbitant amount of at least two types of painkillers.
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What's an exhorbitant amount? Give me the names of the drugs and the number of milligrams of each please.

Taking an opioid to get high is different than taking it for pain. Limb claims he was "addicted" to opioids as a result of taking them for pain. The idea that pain patients become addicted is considered a myth these days, by pain med specialists.

"10 pills" means nothing. 10 pills of what drug of how many milligrams each? Low dosage oxycodone pills (2.5 mg) are manufactured, and used for mild pain. If you had severe pain, you might need 10 low-dosage pills (25 mg). 25 mg might not be an excessive dose for someone with severe intractable pain.

The recommended dose of Valium for anxiety is 2 mg to 10 mg, several times a day. So 2 mg doses are manufactured. Guess what? For my second hernia operation, they decided I needed 20 mg. That would be 10 2 mg pills. Or 2 10 mg pills. Guess what: I did not notice any change in consciousness from this nice little dose -- still nowhere near an overdose. Presumably it relieved pain by acting synergisticly with the injection of Demerol they gave me (60 mg). I guess if I hadn't had this stuff, the operation would have hurt more. But the combination did not change my consciousness in any way that I noticed. I guess you can say the presumed reduction in pain was a change in consciousness. But I didn't notice a reduction of pain, because they gave me the meds before the presumably painful events started. So there was nothing to notice.

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If Rush were as anti-drug and all-fired "good" as he has set himself up to be, he would have notified his physician the moment he noticed that he must take many more pills than prescribed in order to experience pain relief.
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Yup. So why did he buy black-market drugs instead? Makes no sense -- unless he was trying to get high.

A sudden need for a much larger dose might be indicated if a new painful condition arose or a crisis situation in the progress of an injury, arose, or the person had a progressive disease such as cancer that resulted in increasing pain. Pain med doctors will have you come into their office, look you over, and prescribe much more, if much more if needed. Why didn't Limb ask for more instead of obtaining it illegally? Unless he was taking the drug to get high, someone with his wealth and contacts should have been able to get as much as he needed, from his doctor. Someone else might have had trouble -- and this is a real problem resulting from the stupid "war on drugs." But a rich person with contacts and scientific verification of spinal problems should have had no trouble getting as much as he wanted, from his pain med specialist.

Are you sayng that he was lying about taking them for pain and was really taking them for "kicks"? Getting a "rush" does take large doses. And new rushes a few hours or days after the last rush, takes a much larger dose than the last dose. But new pain relief does not. The dose that caused a rush yesterday -- you'll need 10 times as much to get a rush the next day. The dose that relieved your back pain yesterday -- unless there had been a new back injury, or a sudden new development in the condition of your back -- you'll need about the same amount the next day, for about the same amount of pain. You might have twice as much pain and need twice as much meds. But not 10 times as much, unless you had a progressive disease or developed a new development that caused new pain.

I am hoping he learns something from his illness as Morton Downey Jr. did. He was a confrontational talk show host who was proud of his smoking, and blew smoke in his guests' faces. After have a lung removed in 1996, he became an anti-smoking advocate.
http://www.lungusa.org/press/legislative/legmrtspcf.html

Sadly, he lost his battle with lung cancer in 2001.
Not the same thing exactly, but maybe Rush can gain some humility.

I don't see any illness that Limb has, other than the injury to his spine. I'm sorry, but I just don't view taking drugs as an illness. A treatment maybe, if you take the right drug in the right amount at the right time, but never an illness. While people can be seemingly "doomed" to taking drugs -- this, like being "addicted" to taking drugs, is an informal term, and neither term is a medical term for an illness. It's a popular mythology that provides a vaguely plausible explanation for having a habit, but is not a scientific explanation. The fact that doctors have used the explanation doesn't make it scientific.

While doctors can help people with such habits, they are not treating an illness when they do so, any more than they are treating an illness when they help pregnant women with the process of having a normal birth, by making the process more comfortable.

Are you sayng that he was lying about taking them for pain and was really taking them for "kicks"?

Yes, I'm saying that he started taking them for pain and more than likely began taking them for kicks. Haven't you ever known anyone who used the last few of the Vicodan they were prescribed for oral surgery for fun rather than pain relief? One or two pills (depending upon mg dosage) and one shot, one beer, or one glass of wine is quite nice, so I'm told by people I've known who've partaken. Is Rush Limbaugh immune to such lures? I think not.

As far as your demands of info on dosage, Soilman, I can offer none. Basically, my assertion was that many painkillers regardless of prescribed dosage/mg are addictive (obviously) and don't work as well when taken over time. As a result, many people whether for actual medical reasons or for fun take more than is recommended by their doctor, however much that may be. So, regardless of whether or not one is wealthy, if one goes to a legitimate physician and asks for "a whole mess a pills" then they probably won't get them because most doctors fear legal retribution. There is a limit, you know, to how much/many pain killers most doctors will prescribe regardless of how much a patient may think they need it.

Edited to fix tags

Ultimately, does it even matter how or why Rush became addicted to a drug? The fact of the matter is, he did, so much so that he sent out his housekeeper to score for him.

He has spent the entirety of his career working hard to blight his own and his audience's feelings of empathy for their fellow human beings who might be suffering. Now, ironically, he has succumbed to the very problem he condemned others for with such vehemence. That's the real issue. He has set up what he feels to be a higher moral standard, has enjoyed a vast platform from which to pontificate and win converts, and yet, is unable to live up to his own rhetoric. The ungraciousness of the right, the holier than thou attitude, the willfull lack of empathy for his fellow humans is what has made so many feel that Rush got his comeuppance. He was made to see that no one is too high up to fall from their perch.

One might feel sorry for Rush the man, but it's more difficult to excuse him as someone who has worked so hard to purge feelings of empathy from others. If it is proved that he was in possession of illegal substances, and/or that he was involved with dealing drugs then he should go to jail, just like he has long advocated for everyone else who engages in such activities. But I think we all know that will never happen. Therein lies a portion of the hypocrisy of the right. Their family values rhetoric only applies to "everyone else" never to themselves.

I don't know about exact dosages, but Limbaugh's housekeeper claims to have provided him with over 4500 Oxycontin (tabs? caps? I'm not sure) in a span of 6 weeks. Sounds to me like there's more than "chronic pain" going on.

He has set up what he feels to be a higher moral standard, has enjoyed a vast platform from which to pontificate and win converts, and yet, is unable to live up to his own rhetoric.

Gosh, for a minute there I thought you were talking about William Jefferson Clinton. :lol: Hypocrisy knows no political ideology, it is a human trait, and a human failing. It's everywhere. I don't attempt to excuse it, merely recognize it, mind you . . . :D

Quizeen writes:
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Haven't you ever known anyone who used the last few of the Vicodan they were prescribed for oral surgery for fun rather than pain relief?
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No. Vicodan is not fun. It relieves pain. If you take more than 3 or 4 at once you start getting into the area of liver damage from excessive acetaminophen, but don't get enough hydrocodone to get a pleasurable feeling. Alcohol increases the likelyhood of liver damage. Anyone who has taken more than 4 along with some alcohol, will probably be dead of liver damage within 2 or 3 years, and will feel ill from the excess apap, rather than feel well.

There is simply no way to have fun or pleasure by taking Vicodin.

To have "fun" you need plain hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, etc, it just won't work with a combo-of-ing drug like Vicodin.

Acquiring 4500 tablets within 6 weeks is not the same as taking them within 6 weeks. People like to stock up. Perhaps they are getting a good price a certain week, and think they might have to pay more later.

All is meaningless unless I know how many milligrams he took. Tablets come in different strengths. You don't have to take all the tabs you buy. All this info is meaningless.

"He has set up what he feels to be a higher moral standard, has enjoyed a vast platform from which to pontificate and win converts, and yet, is unable to live up to his own rhetoric. The ungraciousness of the right, the holier than thou attitude, the willfull lack of empathy for his fellow humans is what has made so many feel that Rush got his comeuppance."

What comeuppance? Having a drug habit is not such a terribly awful unpleasant thing, esp if you have money for treatment. These days a good doctor can precisely control withdrawal so that you hardly feel any unpleasantness at all.

If he says taking drugs illegally is wrong, and then he goes and does it, then he is a hypocrite. But I don't see how he is suffering as a result.

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One might feel sorry for Rush the man, but it's more difficult to excuse him as someone who has worked so hard to purge feelings of empathy from others. If it is proved that he was in possession of illegal substances, and/or that he was involved with dealing drugs then he should go to jail, just like he has long advocated for everyone else who engages in such activities. But I think we all know that will never happen. Therein lies a portion of the hypocrisy of the right. Their family values rhetoric only applies to "everyone else" never to themselves.
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I don't feel sorry for him. If he bought drugs illegally, whilst chastising others for doing that (i have never paid any attention to him; I don't know what he has said in the past about drugs) he is being hypocritical.

What planet are you living on Soilman?

How is a drug problem not a terrible thing? Huge expense, physical, mental, and emotional damage, public humiliation. Whoo hoo! Sounds like a party.

Also, contrary to how you might feel about it, I know many people who have had what they deemed enjoyable times mildly abusing various pharmaceuticals. Simply because you don't think it's fun, doesn't mean that no one else does.

Bankruptor, it has been a hobby horse of far right leaning folks in power to meddle in the private lives of the U.S. citizenry about issues that they are just as much a party to, although secretly. I don't recall Clinton basing any of his political platform on abstaining from extra-marital sex or blowjobs. Whereas Rush has made it a point to be extremely vocal about drug addicts being vermin. I'm not saying hypocrisy is the sole problem of the right, but they sure do seem to have got an extra heaping helping of it. Clinton wasn't a hypocrite, he was just indiscreet in a nation of Puritans.

:up: Quizeen!

People stocking up on perscription drugs because they're especially cheap one week (I can't imagine this even happening) don't usually send their housekeepers to parkings lots without prescription sheets to pick up said drugs. The dosage of the pills doesn't really matter one whit if ol' Rush is securing his pain medication from the trunks of cars rather than a reputable pharmacy.

"Huge expense, physical, mental, and emotional damage, public humiliation"

If down deep inside you don't feel any guilt, you don't have any emotional damage.

He seems to be doing a good job of avoiding emotional damage and public humiliation.

There is little or no physical damage from opioids, in all but near-death doses. Even then many people come back from such doses without discernable physical damage. In fact large doses are used just in this way by anesthesists: you get a near-death dose, your breathing is backed up with a breathing tube, you wake up without ill effects. Anesthesists praise fentanyl for this very reason. Morphine, tho not quite as good this way as fentanyl, can be used this way too. Yes, it is possible to go into an opioid induced prolongued coma and wake up with brain damage from lack of oxygen to the brain, but not likely unless you truly go into a true coma. And in that case, there is a good chance you won't wake up at all. Other than such very high doses, opioids are extraordinarily unlikey to cause any discernable physical damage.

People take opioids year after year without discernable physical damage. This is in contrast to tobacco, alcohol, and cocaine. There may be some damage from the apap or aspirin that is combined with opioids in some formulations. But take any commercial combo of ingredients pill containing opioids and aspirin, and you are likely get a lethal stomach bleed from the aspirin before you get lethal respiratory depression from the opioid.

"Whereas Rush has made it a point to be extremely vocal about drug addicts being vermin."

If this is so, and I have no reason to doubt you, then he is a hypocrit. But again, he doesn't appear to be suffering from being a hypocrit. Why, pople comiserate with him instead of call him a hypocrit, say how "brave" he is.

He seems to be doing a good job of avoiding emotional damage and public humiliation.

Really, I guess none of us can truly know if this is true or not. But, as a regular citizen I'd say that having to make a public acknowledement of what is considered a major personal failing would cause considerable emotional damage. I'd have to say the same about the public humiliation factor. I know I wouldn't like to have to go on a syndicated radio show and tell everyone what a fool I've been. But, he may be a rock, who can say?

As far as the opiate/addiction factor, ya got me there. I haven't studied such material. It would just seem reasonable that such a compulsion might not be too beneficial to the body, mind or spirit. Especially if one is willing to risk public humiliation, the loss of a job, jail time, etc.

Also, what about all of those De Quincey-esque opium addicts? They aren't just handing out morhpine drips willy nilly now are they? If opiates don't cause physical harm, why can't we all be lotus-eaters if we have the cash and conviction?