You see, murder is when a human kills another human, with the intention of doing so.
We can't murder bulls, and bulls cannot murder us.
Just making a point here. :evil:

You see, murder is when a human kills another human, with the intention of doing so.
We can't murder bulls, and bulls cannot murder us.
Just making a point here. :evil:

from websters:

2nd definition of murder as a verb:

to slaughter wantonly

I think you must be thinking of homicide. But even then an animal could technicaly commit homicide on a human.

Yeah, good point. But Peta does use the word Murder out of context sometimes.

To me, murder is taking another sentient being's life. Animals are sentient beings.

You see, murder is when a human kills another human, with the intention of doing so.
We can't murder bulls, and bulls cannot murder us.
Just making a point here. :evil:


The intention would be for sustenence when killing an animal. That's just how I see it.

What makes the killing of a non-human animal less "murder" than the killing of a human?

A life is a life, regardless of what body that life takes. Non-human animals deserve their lives just as much as we do. Killing is killing.

What makes the killing of a non-human animal less "murder" than the killing of a human?

A life is a life, regardless of what body that life takes. Non-human animals deserve their lives just as much as we do. Killing is killing.


:yes: I agree.

In my view, ethical vegetarianism doesn't say much about "murder". It says that we should reduce the suffering caused by us to other sentient beings (humans AND animals) as much as possible, optimally eliminating it.

Sure, it can be argued that killing an animal is different from killing a human. It also can be argued (quite successfully IMO) that it IS murder.

But in the end this is irrelevant, because no matter how you call it (murder or not), it's still wrong. Why?

Because...

1. it causes suffering

2. it is unnecessary (there is no reason to kill, eat, etc. animals other than our habits and addictions).

Would you not agree that reducing unnecessary suffering (in any being that is capable of suffering) is something all humans should strive to?

My $0.02 :)

BTW, the founding principles of PETA itself are "animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on or use for entertainment".

Oops! Looks like someone is lost.

I FEEL that the excessive killing of factory farmed animals is murder. It feels unjust and immoral....to me. According to my dictionary though, only the unlawful killing of one human by another especially if premeditated is classified as murder.

But I stand by the sentiment, "Meat is Murder". "niku wa satsujin desu"

d7

I have a shirt I like alot. It says "Hunt eachother, leave the animals alone" then there's an outline of two hunters taking aim at eachother. I'd pay to see that.

did you know its only an autopsy if its a human dissecting a dead human?

if its a dissection of a dead animal its a necropsy.
and it stinks really bad!!

Murder, homicide...the semantics don't matter. The issue is whether or not animals have interests for their own lives, and whether it is ethical to deprive animals of their interests to suit our own desires.

As someone who believes in animal rights, I do not find it ethical to kill animals for our own purposes. Killing animals is UNNECESSARY for human survival and development.

"niku wa satsujin desu"
Meat is murder in japanese.
I think meat is murder. Killing an animal is killing like a human to me. So :junk: to Mc Murder and Murder King

I might add that the slaughtering of animals is premeditated, too.

Laws are not extended morals. They are put into action so people can live together. And, obviously, people couldn't live together if anybody could just get up and kill someone at will.
Peta takes this definition of the law (even though it is immoral to kill someone) and puts it into how they "feel" about the animals-they don't think about it.
Oh yes, have you noticed that all of Peta's Factory Farm videos use the same footage, over and over again? And it looks like the same factory farm to me. So, Peta finds ONE factory farm that is doing things illegal, and then, shouts out- "ALL FACTORY FARMS ARE LIKE THIS!" In my book, that's just plain idiotic, stupid, and half-assed. Same case with a few unfortunate events at circuses, and the fur farm. It all looks the same!

Okay firstly.. your issue seems to be with PETA and not with the idea that people feel that killing animals is the same as killing humans. So maybe you should say that your problem is with PETA and discuss THAT.

Having or not having video footage of factory farms or circuses has NOTHING to do with whether killing animals should/can be considered "murder" or not.

As far as circuses, and factory farms, there's documented proof about their claims, heck often from inside sources. Look at the Tyson stuff. They very obviously know what it's like because there's an ex-worker working with them now who even has his own weblog (http://cyberactivist.blogspot.com). They've done undercover work at places, they have done stuff that hasn't necessarily been video taped, they've gotten people who work at these places to talk about it.

No one is ever saying "Only ever listen to one source and never look beyond it," if you do that you're as stupid as the people who think kicking chickens is fun. PETA is ONE organization that raises awareness of these issues: it's YOUR responsibility to look further into them and not just take one word as law. PETA is great in my opinion because they make people look into things. I went, "I can't believe people can do that..." and looked into it more, went to more animal rights groups, sites like the Cyberactivist, etc. I didn't go as far as going to factory farms, because I didn't need to to change myself.

Scimitar, before you start shouting that it's all the same one place, or whatever, have you even looked into that? They may all look the same because they might all look the same - I've been to various humane societies and they all more or less look the same so would factory farms and fur farms look so different from each other?

It just sounds to me that you don't like PETA and want to rant and rave about them being stupid and all their videos being the same, without even thinking about the issues they raise. They never say that their videos are from more than one source, or from only one source, that I know of, so it's not as if they are making false claims about that. They are saying factory farms are evil and suck for the animals, which is true whether they are doing anything "illegal" or not. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's something for people to applaud. Gestation crates, anal and vaginal electrocution, and de-beaking are all legal (at least in some places) - does that make them okay? No. Does that make them hurt the animal less? No.

Does PETA have message boards?

Does PETA have message boards?

there's peta2.com which does have message boards/forums.. it's their "activist/teen" site.

I don't think the actual peta site has one, or one that's geared more toward adult, mature, intelligent conversation at least.

I recently talked to someone who worked at a Cargill slaughterhouse in Alberta, Canada. He basically said that every horrible thing you have heard happens at these places happens.

BTW, getting factory farm and slaughterhouse footage isn't easy. You have to do it undercover. Besides, the horrible things you see in the video are all standard practices as described in agricultural industry journals.

and another thing.. why would PETA want to go around visiting more slaughterhouses just to film more animals being slaughtered? Especially when they find that it happens everywhere. They don't need new footage, imo.

Hahaha..kurm, I love your avatar!

and another thing.. why would PETA want to go around visiting more slaughterhouses just to film more animals being slaughtered? Especially when they find that it happens everywhere. They don't need new footage, imo.


Maybe to show that the slaughterhouses are still using very inhumane practices. Otherwise people may see the [old] vids and say.."but that was years ago, they've changed since then". People can't use that excuse when new footage is available to prove them wrong.

d7

Slaughterhouses are very secretive about their practices. Most PETA footage was taken "undercover". If you dive into AR a little bit more, you will find that activists have a hard time getting actual footage of the things that are going on in slaughterhouses.

This aside, the sheer numbers of the animals killed (4 million per hour in the U.S. alone) makes humane treatment impossible. If you think about it, this becomes evident even without more footage.

And Scimitar, you might want to think about and or address the other points that were brought up in this thread, not just vent about PETA and argue about definitions of words. This would miss the main points and idea of AR and since you came here and post, I assume that you are at least somewhat interested in it. You can't find a better place to get informed about AR and vegetarianism than VeggieBoards :)

Ahhh f*ck, I was positive I clicked on the Support forums.

Will the next upgrade rectify this error?

Ahhh f*ck, I was positive I clicked on the Support forums.

Will the next upgrade rectify this error?

:lol: