The Universal Vegetarian Seal Project

[uvsp1]

I've just started a new campaign to push our legislators to mandate a seal telling if the product has any animal derivatives or was tested on animals.

general info+contact www.myspace.com/UVSP
facebook+grassroots tools COMING SOON
petition www.thepetitionsite.com/1/push-for-a-universal-vegan-seal

[Kiz]

"Our" legislators? This is world wide, then? You might get some of the Western group countries on board but you will have a hard time getting places like China on board. :( It would be useful to have a tag like this, though, for imported foods. Does the petition go to the WTO or whereabouts? Thank you for your efforts!

[rosiem]

Am I the only person who read the title of this thread and thought, "Umm... Don't seals eat fish and penguins and stuff?"

[uvsp1]

Maybe I should change the name :) and i is just aimed at the united states, but if its popular the other countries might want to hop on board

[soilman]

I don't think you would want to put something this important in the hands of goverment. Kosher food manufacturers have long depended on private certifying companies, and they have relied on the reputation. Internet merchants and banks have long relied on private companies to certify their web sites as being secure, not on government. Both work very well. Government would make a mess of this, with individual low-paid gov workers becoming corrupt and certifying things that don't deserve certification. It would become meaningless.

The vegan society already has a certification program. I'd much rather trust the vegan society to certifiy things than gov!

[MrFalafel]

This is a bad idea. It will backfire.

Companies will not adopt this seal for fear of lawsuits if they make a mistake.

Companies will become even more hostile to vegetarians if mandatory regulation is enforced.

If you like vegetarian food then I strongly suggest you do not support this concept.

[uvsp1]

This is a bad idea. It will backfire.

Companies will not adopt this seal for fear of lawsuits if they make a mistake.

Companies will become even more hostile to vegetarians if mandatory regulation is enforced.

If you like vegetarian food then I strongly suggest you do not support this concept.

Well they might become hostile if they have to change their formula to make it vegan or they must say it's not vegan... but I think gov needs to step in soon to stop deceptive labeling.

Just like with the McDonald's lawsuit a few years ago, McD used 7% beef fat in their fries and lied, vegetarians sued and McD settled for $10m. If this was in place at that time, that could have been avoided.

All regulation restricting behavior has some loophole, but hopefully this will do more good than bad.

[Kyo]

"Our" legislators? This is world wide, then? You might get some of the Western group countries on board but you will have a hard time getting places like China on board. :( It would be useful to have a tag like this, though, for imported foods. Does the petition go to the WTO or whereabouts? Thank you for your efforts!

I don't know why you would think that the Eastern countries would be less likely to do something like that than the Western countries. Many of the Eastern countries are largely Buddhist and many forms of Buddhism advocate vegetarianism. If you look at products from Asia the vegetarian products are often labeled vegetarian or have Buddhist symbols like a 8-spoked wheel or an image of Kuan Yin. I suppose its just pro-Western anti-Eastern bias.

[Kiz]

I don't know why you would think that the Eastern countries would be less likely to do something like that than the Western countries. Many of the Eastern countries are largely Buddhist and many forms of Buddhism advocate vegetarianism. If you look at products from Asia the vegetarian products are often labeled vegetarian or have Buddhist symbols like a 8-spoked wheel or an image of Kuan Yin. I suppose its just pro-Western anti-Eastern bias.

:lol: China is a huge eater of meat where it can be afforded. I did not say "Eastern Countries". I said China. Some European countries have the same aversion to being told what to do with their trade agreements, so do some African places, and more. Not everyone is a willing and happy member of the WTO. Have a look at how China (my example, and not the only country) deals with any sort of trade agreements. It is like pulling teeth. You want this to be "universal" - good luck on that part - with countries who consistently abhor being told what to do by the World Trade Organisation. China just sprang to mind because I was reading an artilce about a recent stoush of theirs with international food regulations just last night.

You think China=All Eastern Countries and there is no difference between any of them. I supposse that is not so much anti-Eastern bias as having no idea that the "East" is as diverse as the "West" and not just one homogenous block.

[Kyo]

Kiz;
You singled out the Western countries as being the ones most likely to do it therefore implying that all the other countries are less likely to do it. And then you singled out China as a country that wouldn't be likely to do it. I thought that was ridiculous because Chinese Buddhism is mainly Mahayana Buddhism which generally advocates vegetarianism.

I never said that I advocated a mandated universal vegetarian symbol and of course it wouldn't be universal throughout the world. It would have to be voluntary.

[MrFalafel]

Well they might become hostile if they have to change their formula to make it vegan or they must say it's not vegan... but I think gov needs to step in soon to stop deceptive labeling.

Just like with the McDonald's lawsuit a few years ago, McD used 7% beef fat in their fries and lied, vegetarians sued and McD settled for $10m. If this was in place at that time, that could have been avoided.

All regulation restricting behavior has some loophole, but hopefully this will do more good than bad.

And thats exactly why this will fail. Companies will fear lawsuits and simply say that none of their food is suitable for vegetarians even it is. They will worry about a mistake being made causing them lawsuits. No company in their right mind would adopt this labelling as their legal departments would not allow it.

Instead, consumers should work with trusted suppliers. Niche suppliers can build trust with consumers and specialise in vegetarian food. This way the consumer and supplier work together.

[Duke Nukem]

Lawsuit fear is a real killer for the idea.

At best, if there were legislation then we'd see "may contain traces of animal" in the same way as we get "may contain nuts" - covering oneself just in case.

Better is to work with companies; for example, I would tell Robinsons (fruit drink) that I've stopped buying their product because they've removed the "suitable for vegetarians" label, else email a company if there is something I'd really like to buy but am unsure about - and go without if in doubt. If several people ask them the same question then they will do something as it will be in their opwn financial interests.

And to pick up on what MrFalafel said, support the smaller campanies that specialise in "our" type of foods - if they are prosporous then you can bet your life that the big companies will take notice and see a money making opertunity - a way quicker way to get things done than attempting legislation.

Besides, certainly in the UK you'll probably find there are plenty of MP's with dodgy outside interests with the main food manufactures for any such legislation attempt to fail.

TTFN,
Jon

[rosiem]

Well they might become hostile if they have to change their formula to make it vegan or they must say it's not vegan... but I think gov needs to step in soon to stop deceptive labeling.

Just like with the McDonald's lawsuit a few years ago, McD used 7% beef fat in their fries and lied, vegetarians sued and McD settled for $10m. If this was in place at that time, that could have been avoided.

All regulation restricting behavior has some loophole, but hopefully this will do more good than bad.

Yeah, and it didn't help any. They still use beef fat on their fries.

[uvsp1]

And thats exactly why this will fail. Companies will fear lawsuits and simply say that none of their food is suitable for vegetarians even it is. They will worry about a mistake being made causing them lawsuits. No company in their right mind would adopt this labelling as their legal departments would not allow it.

Instead, consumers should work with trusted suppliers. Niche suppliers can build trust with consumers and specialise in vegetarian food. This way the consumer and supplier work together.
That would work for the 2% of food companies that actually say whats in the product, the other 98% say "natural flavors" (what McD did, and put in beef fat).