What do you think about Heifer Project International?

[myrtlemaneet]

If you don't know, Heifer provides livestock to people in poor areas. Chickens, goats, ducks, cows, etc, to be used for milk, babies, eggs and meat. I always thought it was a nice thing for *people* but I recently picked up a Heifer Project book at a used bookstore and some of the pictures of the animals were quite sad. One woman kept her goats in a raised cage so they couldn't destroy her crops, and one family lived in a shoddy apartment building and kept a COW on the roof. Sorry, I feel bad for the people but I don't think it's ok to keep animals in conditions like that. What do you think?

[Sevenseas]

I think it's without any justification. Sentient beings aren't things, and two wrongs don't make a right.

[Wolfie]

I throw away all the crap they send me. I have no idea how I got on their mailing list.

[guinnesshero]

why cant they provide rice and such instead of live stock. if these people are so poor then what are they feeding the cows and goats.

[myrtlemaneet]

why cant they provide rive and such instead of live stock. if these people are so poor then what are they feeding the cows and goats.

Good point! I do agree that giving people seeds and helping them make gardens would be a much better way to help them.

I went back and re-read the part about the woman who kept her goats in a raised cage, and here's what she says about them "I can't have them eating my grass... they mean the world to me. They give me everything," and then there's a picture of her crying. Seriously? If they mean the world to you, you can't let them eat some of your grass, you have to keep them in a RAISED CAGE?

[animallover7249]

I think it's horrible. There's no explanation anyone can give me that will make me think this is ever okay. It makes me SO sad and also angry.
It would be better to try to help these people learn to grow their own food, and to send supplies to get them started. It would be a lot more beneficial to them (wouldn't have to care for the animals, which they probably can barely afford) and the animals wouldn't be sent away to their death.

[Philosoraptor]

It seems to me that it would be a great idea, like so many others, if it were actually executed properly. If people were able and had the resources to care for their animals in a sustainable and natural way- animals able to safely free range on good pasture... but clearly this is not the case.

Why on earth would you give an animal, especially one that requires acreage to live comfortably on, to someone who lives in an APARTMENT?! Seriously?

Wouldn't it make more sense to use the land and resources to *grow* protein? Instead of that nasty funnel effect of using copious amounts of protein, then feeding it to something to create smaller amounts?

I can't imagine that any individual in an impoverished area is going to have the resources to be responsible for the amount of animals need to be self sufficient, so the argument that growing their own (meat/dairy) food is pretty feeble. They could just as easily grow the same (if not greater) variety of plant based proteins.

Some kind of program that brings people in communities together so that they can pull their resources would be much more beneficial.

I have ten chickens on my farm, and they are about the happiest little ladies (and the cuddliest!), but they occasionally go on a laying spree and produce more eggs than they, my family, and our neighbors could eat- so we donate them to our local equivalent of food pantry/shelter.

[animallover7249]

It seems to me that it would be a great idea, like so many others, if it were actually executed properly. If people were able and had the resources to care for their animals in a sustainable and natural way- animals able to safely free range on good pasture... but clearly this is not the case.

It would be a great idea to ship an animal to it's death if it could have more room to roam before being murdered? :confused:



so the argument that growing their own (meat/dairy) food is pretty feeble. They could just as easily grow the same (if not greater) variety of plant based proteins.

I'm not sure if you're talking in general or replying to me (I said they should grow their own food) but you don't "grow" meat or dairy. I was talking about plant foods.

[Philosoraptor]

Yes, if people are going to kill an animal I would certainly prefer they treat it humanely before and at the time of slaughter. If everything were perfect nobody would eat animals, but as long as they insist on eating them I would wish that they lived full happy lives before their death.

However, I was more envisioning people being taught sustainable farming practices- ideally veg ones. Hen's for laying that are allowed to free range and live normal lives, not being forced to molt, no artificial lighting ,etc. Alpacas and sheep for wool and manure for their gardens. Community farming would be ideal, everyone would have access to foods they might not be able to produce themselves. Often times, especially in 3rd world countries, land varies greatly from plot to plot- one family may be able to only grow a specific type of crop, and another family a different one. Neither would be able to live off of their own land, but combined they could make it work.

[animallover7249]

The community idea is great. :yes:

[rissierissie]

It would be better to try to help these people learn to grow their own food, and to send supplies to get them started. It would be a lot more beneficial to them (wouldn't have to care for the animals, which they probably can barely afford) and the animals wouldn't be sent away to their death.

Not only that but they would be able to help soooo many more people. Soil and seeds and some garden equipment is way cheaper than a cow.

[Catherine_vegan]

I think it makes more sense to provide the communities with plant protein foods. They can feed more people and cost less.

[animallover7249]

Not only that but they would be able to help soooo many more people. Soil and seeds and some garden equipment is way cheaper than a cow.

Yeah, good point. and if you teach them how to grow food, they can get it again year after year.

[isowish]

To be fair to the charities that run these sorts of programs, there probably are logistical reasons they give the families animals rather than a plant source of food -- they know more about it than me, after all. That said, as beneficial as it probably is to the people/families involved, I couldn't support a charity that helped people at such a high and direct cost to animals.

[myrtlemaneet]

To be fair to the charities that run these sorts of programs, there probably are logistical reasons they give the families animals rather than a plant source of food -- they know more about it than me, after all. That said, as beneficial as it probably is to the people/families involved, I couldn't support a charity that helped people at such a high and direct cost to animals.

Maybe in some cases the animals have happy lives, but there is no possible justification for giving a COW to someone who lives in an APARTMENT, nor is it ok to keep goats in a raised cage. some of the pictures in the book were nice, there was a cute one of some kids with geese on their laps and you could tell the geese were pretty happy, but some of them just don't make sense.

[animallover7249]

Where did Isowish say that the animals were happy? I think you misunderstood her post.

[isowish]

Where did Isowish say that the animals were happy? I think you misunderstood her post.

uh. yeah. what Chelsea said. :dizzy:

[myrtlemaneet]

uh. yeah. what Chelsea said. :dizzy:

Hmm, I guess I did. Blame lack of sleep. Anyways, what I said still stands.

[major.walrus]

No, i'm no expert, but from what I do know this seems to be what's going on.

In my opinion, the charities involved are just trying to perpetuate Western dietary norms by forcing animal products into a situation when they're not viable. They look at these communities and go 'Oh, poor them, they can't have any cheese' then send them a cow. Then the cow eats food the people could have been eating and contributes to the desertification of the areas these communities live in - if i'm not mistaken, many of the worlds poorest areas are in sub-Saharan Africa?

Basically, that's just a feelgood thing, not a helping people thing. If they wanted to help they'd send grain and cropseed to feed the people.

This perpetuation of Western norms is exactly the same as the thing that got many poor areas in the trouble they are today - people who live in environments that can only sustain nomadic peoples being forced to settle down and be trapped into European-style agriculture.

[Earthling]

Last year I spent a few days in Swaziland, and I will never forget the things I saw. It was like being in an Oxfam advert with skinny children walking along the side of the road with no shoes. I went to an orphanage filled with children whose parents had died of AIDS, and I support anything that helps the people there get out of this desperate poverty.

I saw a lot of cows, most of them walking along the side of the road. I have no idea what they eat because grass was not abundant. All the cows I saw had bones sticking out everywhere and looked very undernourished. We also got stuck behind a truck with a dead cow slung on the trailer, there were no obvious wounds so it seemed like she died of disease/natural causes. I don't think cows are solving any of the Swazi people's problems, since I can't imagine stick thin cows produce much milk or give much meat when they keel over. With arable land in such short supply, it doesn't seem at all sensible to put livestock in it when it could be feeding starving people.

[myrtlemaneet]

Last year I spent a few days in Swaziland, and I will never forget the things I saw. It was like being in an Oxfam advert with skinny children walking along the side of the road with no shoes. I went to an orphanage filled with children whose parents had died of AIDS, and I support anything that helps the people there get out of this desperate poverty.

I saw a lot of cows, most of them walking along the side of the road. I have no idea what they eat because grass was not abundant. All the cows I saw had bones sticking out everywhere and looked very undernourished. We also got stuck behind a truck with a dead cow slung on the trailer, there were no obvious wounds so it seemed like she died of disease/natural causes. I don't think cows are solving any of the Swazi people's problems, since I can't imagine stick thin cows produce much milk or give much meat when they keel over. With arable land in such short supply, it doesn't seem at all sensible to put livestock in it when it could be feeding starving people.


:(