Overpopulation being an issue what do you think about having a child/children?

[unovegan]

As a parent, i'm obviously biased. BUT, I definitely understand overpopulation and the problems with having children. On the other hand, having veg kids is a positive way to move forward in AR. Thoughts?

[hoodedclawjen]

um... by all means have kids if you want kids, but its odd to think that its a way of moving forward in AR and veg philosophy. couldn't you just teach AR to whole classrooms full of kids on a daily basis, and open a bajillion kids minds to veg food and literature, instead of putting all your AR and veg*an efforts over 18 years into one of your own, and hoping it sticks?

i mean... i love kids. kids are great. but they're little individual people. you can try and get them to turn out a certain way, but its a bit of an uphill battle, and there is no real way of knowing what you'll end up with. maybe they'll defect and become a burgermunching puppy abuser despite your best efforts.

[unovegan]

um... by all means have kids if you want kids, but its odd to think that its a way of moving forward in AR and veg philosophy. couldn't you just teach AR to whole classrooms full of kids on a daily basis, and open a bajillion kids minds to veg food and literature, instead of putting all your AR and veg*an efforts over 18 years into one of your own, and hoping it sticks?

i mean... i love kids. kids are great. but they're little individual people. you can try and get them to turn out a certain way, but its a bit of an uphill battle, and there is no real way of knowing what you'll end up with. maybe they'll defect and become a burgermunching puppy abuser despite your best efforts.

Well, my plan wasn't to have kids to become mouthpieces for the AR movement. But, i think change begins with the family. Starting a cultural change is great which is what VB is doing, but the family only strengthens that.
I don't see classrooms teaching AR to a bajillion kids anytime soon. It's a nice thought though. Until that time, it's great to teach your kids compassion.

[Wolfie]

Kids become teens, then adults with their own ideas. One of the biggest must-have-meat-all-the-time guys I know was raised veg.

I don't want kids, obviously, but if others do and can take care of them, more power to them.

[jenni-anti-fur]

I said in another thread..I am torn on this issue and not really leaning one way or another...kinda in the middle...BUT and its a big one...I have always said that I never wanted kids cause the world we live in is majorly screwed up thats way too overpopulated and I still feel that way....so its 90-10 No Kids.

I wouldnt just have kids so that I could raise them veggie./ar activists like me...I wouldnt anyways cause I believe in choice and its there choice if they want to be veggie or not....its true you never know how kiddies are gonna grow up...my parents are bigg meat eaters and I am a veggie that never ate much meat.

[hoodedclawjen]

its interesting that it seems like quite lot of groups who feel passionate about religion or ethnic superiority or whatever seem to be having a bunch of kids to increase the numbers who feel the same way as they do. i wonder if everyone is gonna cancel each other out, or if the kids will rebel by refusing to have any kids of their own, or what.

[unovegan]

I'm very much against having a bunch of kids. We've had number 2 and that's it. I'm going under the knife very soon. I have a big problem with people having more than 2-3 kids. At times I've definitely thought there should be a cap on the number of kids people should have.
My wife's a lifelong veggie from veg parents. It sounds like people on here don't even think we should try and teach our kids about the abuse of animals?? Everyone's so pessimistic about it. Our kids won't have that choice until they move out of our house. We don't allow meat in our home. If they choose to eat it outside of our house, that's their option. I'll definitely let them know my thoughts on it, but i'll let them know they have the right to do what they want.

[hoodedclawjen]

that not what i was trying to say at all. :)

it just seems from your intro post that you're saying "i know there is a big problem with there being way too many people in the world already, but its good for vegans to make more little vegans of their own, cos they'll grow up and be nice to animals, so that justifies it, right?"

and that just makes my brain kinda explode, is all. :)

[unovegan]

No no no! If i felt that way, use that gun avatar on me please!!

I would NEVER do something so shallow and selfish as to have kids to push my agendas. They're free thinking little buggers. Hopefully they'll do the right thing, but if not, so be it. That's life.

ps No brain explosions please. They're a mess to clean up and you seem to be a big wig/head honcho on here ie you're important!

[hoodedclawjen]

yeah, flipping kids and their free thinking and constant asking of why? why? why? until your brain implodes and you climb into the trunk of your own car just to escape. gotta love 'em. :D

sooo.... how were you meaning your thread to come across then?

[unovegan]

That's funny. I had to ask my son several times today to take it easy on the "whys?" as MY brain was about to explode.

I'm asking this question for a few reasons. I like to see what the younger and non American readers think about this. I'm partly curious as to how the younger generation feels about having kids. The other veg websites i belong to don't have such a young population. This website has definitely taught me quite a bit pertaining to the aforementioned groups.
I also believe in and like respectful debates. I think things can be gleaned from them. I've definitely learned some interesting things that i actually agree with even though I have an opposing viewpoint.

[hoodedclawjen]

my brain tells me to have kids sometimes, but i know it'd be an incredibly stupid idea for me personally to do that, so i swear liberally at these irrational thoughts and do my best to interact with and influence kids i know (nieces and nephews, friends, kids i've worked with) positively instead.

i'm thinking more and more about fostering, or working with little kids full time in a school setting, of late. obviously i couln't veganise these kids, but you can plant little seeds in kids minds that make huge differences, in lot of different ways- teaching them to think and look and contemplate, showing them how to treat other creatures and the planet kindly, etc. i'm suprised by what i remember and what influenced me.

i love kids, i get a lot out of being around them, but they completely exhaust me, and i just dunno if my already fragile marbles could take it. :lol:

[unovegan]

At least you're admitting that you're not ready if at all. With our son Samuel, my wife asked me after about 6 months "can you handle this?" My response was "do i have a choice?" Eventually it got easier, but at the time I had no parental instincts at all. There are definitely many people out there that really shouldn't be having kids. I work with those kids regularly. It definitely requires a good deal of selflessness.

[RedLotus]

I suppose I fall into the younger generation (I'm 27). Personally, I plan on adopting and fostering. I work with kids in the system, and have seen SO many children who wanted nothing more than a family and someone to love them. There are so many kids in this country (world) who need homes, and the effect of not having one is devastating to them. I can't begin to tell you how much damage it causes to them to be bumped from foster home to foster home and never have that stability and love that we all need, and I need to try to do someone about that even for just a few kids.

There's nothing wrong with having your own kids obviously, and there is a small part of me that would maybe like that, but I'm determined to adopt.

You can share your beliefs with non-bio kids, too. Just because you didn't give birth to them or father them doesn't mean that you aren't their parent, or that you can't raise them to be good, compassionate people. Like it's already been mentioned, kids are people with their own POVs and opinions, but you can help to guide them in the right direction and then trust them to make the right decisions. So I guess I see adoption as a good compromise to your OP. It doesn't contribute to overpopulation, and you can still instill good values in a member of the next generation. Plus a kid gets a family, which is an amazing thing.

[Alicia Avocado]

Personally I think more people should adopt kids rather than have them, and raise them in a vegetarian home, rather than produce more knowing some child out there needs/wants a family.

Win-Win

[LabileLotus]

Personally I think more people should adopt kids rather than have them, and raise them in a vegetarian home, rather than produce more knowing some child out there needs/wants a family.

Win-Win

:rockon:
That is all.

[Kayleigh=)]

if you had kids tho, and wanted them to make their own decisions on whether or not to be vegan/vegetarian, would you raise them as vegan/vegetarian untill they were old enough to understand it all? or raise them eating meat unless they decide they dont want to?

[Morbo]

I guess if I wind up having kids, it'll be way farther down the road... I'm 22, and just beginning to transition as being FTM. Right now, the thought of being a parent isn't appealing at all to me, but I know that may change as I get older. Naturally, I'd adopt.

As far as raising veg*n kids? I'd raise a child to eat as I did, but I think once they're a teenager, you gotta let them choose for themselves.

[MrFalafel]

I think there should be more of an emphasis on everyone to look after all children everywhere. Even children with parents can benefit from input and support from other adults. The idea that just parents raise a child in semi isolation seems to be not doing the world any favours. Whats the phrase? 'It takes a village to raise a child'.

Children need to be seen as part of society and not locked out of it. By being a part of society they can become more socialised and responsible when growing up.

[unovegan]

if you had kids tho, and wanted them to make their own decisions on whether or not to be vegan/vegetarian, would you raise them as vegan/vegetarian untill they were old enough to understand it all? or raise them eating meat unless they decide they dont want to?

Ours are being raised vegan. When they are responsible enough to truly understand their decisions, they are free to do what they want. But, we don't have meat in this house and that will stand. It's a bit of a touchy subject as i'm vegan and my wife's vegetarian. She knows how i feel about her vegetarianism and I was telling her last night that i'll let our kids know how I feel about their choices as well. I'll tone it down with them though. I think being honest is the best recourse even though the wording is key.

[Bells]

I'm very much against having a bunch of kids. We've had number 2 and that's it. I'm going under the knife very soon. I have a big problem with people having more than 2-3 kids. At times I've definitely thought there should be a cap on the number of kids people should have.

That's a slippery slope, my friend. How would your regulate that? Where would the regulation end? What would happen to those families who have over x amount of children?

I, for one, have no problem with big families. I don't plan on having kids, but if I ever do, I think I would want three or four of them, if I can financially afford to give them a comfortable home.


It sounds like people on here don't even think we should try and teach our kids about the abuse of animals?? Everyone's so pessimistic about it. Our kids won't have that choice until they move out of our house. We don't allow meat in our home. If they choose to eat it outside of our house, that's their option. I'll definitely let them know my thoughts on it, but i'll let them know they have the right to do what they want.

My kids will be raised vegan. It's my duty to instill my values in them. Once they grow up, they can choose how they want to live their life, but while they are young and under my roof, they will live by my rules.

[unovegan]

That's a slippery slope, my friend. How would your regulate that? Where would the regulation end? What would happen to those families who have over x amount of children?

I, for one, have no problem with big families. I don't plan on having kids, but if I ever do, I think I would want three or four of them, if I can financially afford to give them a comfortable home.



My kids will be raised vegan. It's my duty to instill my values in them. Once they grow up, they can choose how they want to live their life, but while they are young and under my roof, they will live by my rules.

It is a slippery slope and one in which my opinion is enough. I know they put limitations in China but i don't know how well it works or is accepted. It's just that the rate of births far outweighs the rate of deaths currently.

Agreed about living by my rules under my roof.

[Pixelle]

I think there should be more of an emphasis on everyone to look after all children everywhere.

Absolutely - everyone except me. http://fc06.deviantart.com/fs32/f/2008/218/f/7/Silent_ninja_run_of_awesomness_by_CookiemagiK.gif

[AwardTour]

i'm with unovegan. i think having any more than 2 kids is irresponsible. this thread also reminds me of the beginning of the movie Idiocracy :)

[rapt]

ive had the snip so i wont be contributing to over population myself. :)