Horses

[Raindance]

Hello, im new to this forum, but i just wanted some oppinions on horses and horse riding. First i will tell you a little about me and my herd.
At the moment i have 13 horses. Some riding horses, some unstarted youngsters, two foals and a couple of brood mares.

I love all of them so much, and always want the best for them. All my horses are trained with trust and understanding, building respect and cooperation. They are never physically harmed, but obviously when you are working with big animals you need to be able to defend yourself if a horse was pushy or untrained. Although i would love to be able to keep my horses out doors all the time, they get stabled at night in the winter to save the land we have for the summer when they are out 24/7. All my horses are ridden and trained without metal bits in there mouth, or metal shoes on their feet. I am training to be an equine podiatrist, so that i can trim horses hooves without the need for damaging shoes.

I just wanted to know if many people actually know what goes on in the equine industry. Im not talking about horse racing, because im sure most people here disagree with it. Its more to do with how horses are treated and competed. Horses were not put on this earth to be ridden, but i get so much pleasure out of working with such an incredible animal that i ride them in the kindest way that they never get hurn or abused.

The problem with most people who ride horses do so for some kind of gain. Horses are competed for the gain of the owner, sometimes at the expense of the horses welfare. Jumping, dressage and eventing are big sports in the horse world, but not very many people get a look at behind the scenes of what happens to those horses who are at the top of there game. I dont believe in using bits to inflict pain in the horses mouth for control, but the majority of horses, whether they compete or not, have to wear one, sometimes a very strong bit that hurts them.

A lot of the time top horses go through very hard training scedules, often from a very early age. A four year old is expecte to jump 1 metre jumps when there joints arent really ready for that sort of work. Horses are brocken to ride at around 3 years old, but sometimes even earlier s0 that they are ready to compete at 4.

I want to hear other peoples oppinion on this subject, and if you want any more info on the cruelty of the horseworld, just ask. I will happily fill you in. Sorry for the long post and thank you for reading it.

[hoodedclawjen]

you ride horses for some kind of gain though, don't you? .... your own pleasure and entertainment.

if you wanted what was best for horses, wouldn't they be wild off somewhere doing their own thing? obviously these ones have been turned into pets, but horses in general- don't you think they're better off without people interfering with them, keeping them penned into enclosures, sitting on them, etc?

i don't think something has to be obviously visably cruel in the extreme, like in publicised cases of neglect and starvation, to still be wrong. horseriding, breeding and keeping horses, training them to do tricks- climbing onto their backs and having them run around, jump over poles, prancing about in front of judges ... all of that stuff... that just feels very wrong to me.

i think horses deserve to be off in the wild just like deer do, that they deserve to not be messed with and controlled by people. they deserve to not be 'somebody's horse'.

[Raindance]

I completely agree with you. Ideally they should be in the wild without any human interferance. I also think that there are too many people breeding horses. Especially the racing industry but also in the rest of the horseworld. Quite a lot of them end up neglected or slaughtered because there are two many and not enough demand, especially thoroughbreds who havnt made it in the sport.
I really wish that in the uk we had the facility to let horses into the wild. Unfortunately a lot of it is not really suitable. Even ponies in the new forest get hit by cars quite often. I think there should be a lot more done so that horses and other animals can live in the wild without being harmed by use either on purpose or by accident.

Im in a rather confliction place at the moment as well. I love my horses, and agree that they shouldnt be owned by us. My only problem is that me and my mum (who isnt vegan or vegetarian) are trying to start lessons at home to teach local kids about horses and riding. Its sort of a business venture. Ive been around horses since i was a kid, and its really the only thing i know. To never work with horses would mean id have to have some other kind of interest or job. I really wish i knew what to do about this, because i dont want to get rid of any horses.

[hoodedclawjen]

i don't think you need to, or even should get rid of the horses you have- cos realistically they couldn't survive on their own. but you can still think about whats best for them and other horses, right?

like- don't breed them, and you won't be creating more capitive animals. don't buy any more, and you won't be giving breeders the message that making animals and selling them as if they were toys is ok. instead of giving money to horse breeders and riding clubs, you could raise money for horse rescue groups, and for new forest pony charities.

instead of teaching children about riding, or how to ride, could you teach them about kindness to animals and respect for other creatures? instead of using your animals as a means for financial gain, could you work for a group that help to raise awareness about the plight of neglected horses, and which rescues them from abusive people, which reabilitates them and puts them into nice retirement pastures and looks after them in their old age?

i think if you have a think about it, you might find that there are lots of ways that you could use your skills and understanding of horses, and lots of options that involve working with horses, caring for them, spending quality time with them, but not using them.

[Sewwattsnew]

I don't know much about horses, but the thought of horseshoes has always seemed so weird and unnatural to me. It's encouraging to know that there are people out there who don't shoe their horses, and that gave me the idea that perhaps you could go into business as some sort of alternative-ferrier(sp?) or something like that. I don't know if that's something that's widely available, so maybe by offering that service you could improve the lives of domesticated horses (perhaps not immediately, I don't know if you need certification for that or anything) ?

As far as the class... I don't know about including riding lessons or not, but like Jen said, you could teach kindness/respect for animals, and maybe even proper horse care (not just the basics that I assume comes with riding, but also stuff like "A four-year-old horse should never be made to jump because their joints aren't ready," and so on.)

[Raindance]

Thanks for your replys. I agree that horses wouldnt servive in the wild, and there really isnt anywhere to put them. The world is so populated with people. I dont intend on breeding anymore, because there are to many, a lot of which end up in cruel conditions or in the food chain. Its been my mums lifelong dream to be able to run our own business teaching people about horsesmanship and riding so i cant really leave her to do that on her own. But i think that keeping horses but not using them for any gain will be something that i will work toward in my life. And maybe someday to open a sanctuary for horses as well so old and abused horses have somewhere to live out there natural lives free from pain and fear.
Sewwhattsnew, im actually training to be a barefoot trimmer, so i can trim horses for people who do not want to shoe there horses. Its something that is coming along slowly in this country, but it should get a lot more widely available in the next few years hopefully.

[BWright]

Look up the Ministry of Argriculture, Food and Rural Affairs (that's what it is called in Canada)- There should be a horse speciallist who can answer questions about the horse industry, competitions, etc. They are usually really good about answering back in regards to questions sent to them via e-mail. Approach it intellegently and don't get discourage if they bring a non-vegan/non-vegetarian view to the table. It's just a different perspective and may give you some inside. Do what feels right to you.

As for lessons and cruelty. Is it cruel to allow an animal to do something it likes to do. True not all the horse like to be ridden but like a well trained dog they have learn to like it or naturally do (it is now a domestic animal). I agree teach kindness and respect but are you going to take something away that the horse enjoyed because you felt you were being cruel !!Different perspective!!
There are horse especially ones that worked all their lives that purk up at the sight of a saddle. I had an old guy who retired to my family's farm and it was my brother and my horse for years, he was so good and so use to being ridden that he would purk up at the sight of us. (He also love childrem) He would even let us rid him bare back in the field. He was so good and I really think that he was able to live longer because he was so loved. Had he just been felt in the field, he may have faided away sooner.
Another one of our horse loved to just go and go and go. Often the ridder was tried before she was. It wasn't the same as when she was just in the field- she would just sort of hang out with the other horses.
Please remember that horses are domesticated animals like dogs and cats. They need training otherwise they are not going to have a very happy life living with humans. Your weight is so minimum that you are no being cruel. The saddle is like wearing a bra and the pressure from you legs is really nothing more than a little nudge.
Is this cruelty or is it giving them a good life?

[Raindance]

Thank you BWright. Thats a very nice way to put it. My horses do enjoy being around people, and being ridden. Even though it isnt natural, training them is an important part of horses and people living in harmony. We can learn to work together.

[FreestylePup]

The only think I have a problem is with competing horses. In any way really, racing, dressage, jumping, ect.
Most people disagree with riding horses but I don't really think the horses hate it and or it is life threatening.

[Raindance]

I believe that if horses are treated with kindness, they dont mind us. And most dont mind having to carry us on there backs. I would agree with you freestylepup, i dont like competitions. I hate it when the desire for winning and money is more important than the treatment of the horse. I think some horses do actually enjoy jumping because its a natural behaivior for them and it keeps them interested under saddle. But it gets to the point where bigger bits and whips are used to control the horse, and they just end up working as machines. I worked for a lady showjumper in austraila for about a week, and i remember 1 little horse that she was so hard on that he would return with whip marks on his sides and rump, and he would just stand with his nose on the ground, totally beaten. And this was a leading lady rider too. It made me sick. Unfortunately this sort of treatment isnt seen too often at competitions, so people dont often see the realities of what goes on.

[Meggz]

I worked at a very competivtive show jumping barn in Florida and I have seen some terrible things. I got the job because I have always loved horses and rode since I was very young but I had never experienced this level of competing....and I never want to again.

The horse were treated as objects and never got to actually be horses. They were kept in thier stalls 24/7 except for 1/2 an hour paddock time and when they were being ridden. The onwer didn't want them outside running because they might hurt themselves but because they hardly ever go to go out the first thing they wanted to do was run. So they would loose their paddock time and have to be hand walked on a lead rope.
They almost never got to eat grass and were always on 100 different suppliments. They also got injections all the time to keep them from getting lame. I felt so terrible working there but I knew that when I was there they were were getting treated better because I would take them on longer walks/let them eat grass more.....I was glad to leave because I didn't want to support the industry anymore but it made me sad to think about the horses.

[FreestylePup]

I remember seeing a competition with jumping and there was a bush there. It was meant to try to spook the horses and only the calmer horses would get points for the pass:confused: Why would someone try to scare a horse? Even for competition? It makes no sense:mad:

[FreestylePup]

were always on 100 different suppliments. They also got injections all the time to keep them from getting lame. .

I heard they give race horses steroids or something like that:(

[Birdwatcher]

you ride horses for some kind of gain though, don't you? .... your own pleasure and entertainment.

if you wanted what was best for horses, wouldn't they be wild off somewhere doing their own thing? obviously these ones have been turned into pets, but horses in general- don't you think they're better off without people interfering with them, keeping them penned into enclosures, sitting on them, etc?

i don't think something has to be obviously visably cruel in the extreme, like in publicised cases of neglect and starvation, to still be wrong. horseriding, breeding and keeping horses, training them to do tricks- climbing onto their backs and having them run around, jump over poles, prancing about in front of judges ... all of that stuff... that just feels very wrong to me.


i think horses deserve to be off in the wild just like deer do, that they deserve to not be messed with and controlled by people. they deserve to not be 'somebody's horse'.

I could not agree more. I live in Western Colorado. We have an area here called the Little Book Cliffs. In the canyon, is the largest band of wild horses in the country. I felt differently before seeing them one day. They were so free like they were intended to be. They looked so at peace.

[Raindance]

I think one of the most amazing things to see is wild horses running free. Ive never had the chance to witness it tho. The closest thing i get is when i go to the field that my horses are in. I could just watch them for hours just being horses.
Meggs, i know how you feel. I never want to work for somebody elses horses, ever again. especially someone who competes. Unfortunately this kind of training is seen as the norm, and not cruel. I think so many people are just so use to the fact that it is how you are meant to train horses. Not enough people know that there are alternatives to these harsh methods. So many horses are stables 24/7 these days. Race horses and competition horses. We ones bought a ex race horse, who was suppose to have been racing fit. He was a bag of bones the poor thing. He didnt even know how to trot under saddle and he weaved when stabled. That is he would just weave his neck side to side and step from one front foot to the other. He hated the stable. Luckily we were able to keep him out as much as possible.