Are protein shakes necessary before/after tough workouts???

[Grafik]

hello, this is actually my first post on this board...so here we go.

i have heard a lot of conflicting info about weather or not vegetarians who do strenuous exercise should be getting extra protein from soy/whey protein shakes and haven't really been able to decide if i should be drinking them. i have in the past, but they taste bad, are kind of expensive, and didn't seem to do anything for me.

what do you guys/girls think about protein shakes and working out?

are there any other vitamins or supplements i should consider taking?

thanks

[AussieShane]

hello, this is actually my first post on this board...so here we go.

i have heard a lot of conflicting info about weather or not vegetarians who do strenuous exercise should be getting extra protein from soy/whey protein shakes and haven't really been able to decide if i should be drinking them. i have in the past, but they taste bad, are kind of expensive, and didn't seem to do anything for me.

what do you guys/girls think about protein shakes and working out?

are there any other vitamins or supplements i should consider taking?

thanks

As the name says, protein shakes are just protein. No magic drug, no testosterone booster, no prohormone etc.

Whey is used after a workout because it's known to be a fast absorbing protein. An observation is that after workout, testosterone levels and insulin naturally are elevated for some time. based on this, it's a theory that a fast absorbing protein like Whey (along with simple carbs) will be utilized efficiently (high insulin will shuttle such a high amount to the muscle while high testosterone will synthesize it to rebuild larger tissue).

I take a protein shake after workout simply because it's comfortable and economical. I buy Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey gold in 10lb bags. 2 bags last me a year and a serve (24g protein) comes to about $1.40AU a day.

To see proper results, the diet as a whole should be re-tuned (ensure your getting adequate protein, carbs, fats, minerals) along with a good workout. If you're a beginner, you should probably just get Protein Shake and a multi-vitamin.

[AussieShane]

If you're in America and you order from www.bodybuilding.com or www.Nutraplanet.com , it will be much cheaper for you. Freight to Australia is very expensive.

[Alex JB]

I'm unsure about the whole protein shake & supliment thing, so here's my take on it and question.

I've been a competitive squash player for years and I do a lot of mountainbiking also, my fitness aims are based in strength to weight ratio and endurance ability.
I use almost no machines at the gym other than the spin bikes and tread mill, I just do fitness classes and play squash/train.

I've never had trouble with lack of energy through the vegetarian diet, infact sports was one of the reasonf for going vegetarian, those heavy red meats were impossible to digest/process in time!

However, I don't have and have never had a 6 pack like Brad Pitt!
I have weighed 74 - 80Kg as the years wore on and always looked a little flabby, but Vo2max tests show me as fit/athlete.

I have buddys that use a very regimented system of shakes and supliments and spend time at the weight machines... they look a hell of a lot better in a swim suit than me!
However, they don't come close in a C/V fitness test.

So I'm guessing that perfectly balancing your protein/carb intake straight after a workout seems to aid the fat burn ability and weight loss, but is it necessary for general fitness?

[sblthin]

It's not just for vegetarians, but from what I've read anyone that works out should get a form of protein (whether a shake or whatever) within an hour after you work out, especially if you weight train. I think because it just helps build your muscle and give you a little energy after putting your body through the stress of a workout.

Like I said this is just what I've read personally. I do it sometimes and I think it makes me feel a little better physically. I tend to get hungry when I work out but I don't feel like eating at the same time, so the protein shake or bar helps the hunger and I think it helps with the energy as well. But some of it may be psychological, hard to say.

[kali]

i dont do protein shakes. i just eat some food with protein after my workout. im no robert cheeke or anything, but it appears to repair and build muscle adequately for me.

[*AHIMSA*]

No, they are not necessary.

[Licence]

It's not just for vegetarians, but from what I've read anyone that works out should get a form of protein (whether a shake or whatever) within an hour after you work out, especially if you weight train. I think because it just helps build your muscle and give you a little energy after putting your body through the stress of a workout.

Yeah, this is my view as well. If you work out, especially weights, then you should take a protein shake afterwards...but which one, because they're so full of crap, dairy products, additives and artificial sweeteners etc?

If you're in Britain, I 100% recommend Vegan 90, which is 100% pure pea protein. No sweeteners, nothing added, high in protein (36g per serving), high in lysine, contains all the essential, non-essential and branched amino acids.

And what's more, it tastes great. I know I sound like I work for Nutrisport who make it, but I don't, its just that after going through so many of these products its such a relief to find a vegan one that is so effective.

PDF factsheet link: http://www.nutrisport.co.uk/downloads/90PV908g.pdf

[sblthin]

I get mine from bodybuilding.com. I have one I got from whole foods that's a vegan brown rice powder. But like i mentioned you just need the protein, not necessarily the protein powder. You could make a shake with tofu instead, or eat some nuts or whatever.

[The Lurker]

I started taking protein powder earlier this year as I've never really been able to build muscle and thought that since turning vegan, proteing powder would be a good idea.

i use 'Pulsin' powders in the UK - they do a pea one and soy (pea is best lol) 1/3 before and2/3 after working out and I can say it definately has had an effect.

You should see my guns now! :D

[Licence]

i use 'Pulsin' powders in the UK - they do a pea one and soy (pea is best lol) 1/3 before and2/3 after working out and I can say it definately has had an effect.

Pulsin: not sure about their shakes, but they have without question the worst website this side of the millennium.

[The Lurker]

never checked their website but you can buy the powder in Tesco which is convenient and hopefully means theyre not just selling plain flour laced with sugar and floor sweepings . . .

[veggiemeggie]

From what I've read it is best to eat some combination of protein + carbohydrate within 30 minutes of working out. Supposedly the optimum ratio of protein to carb is 1:4... I've seen people recommend peanut butter + banana on whole grain bread, hummus + pita, and weirdly enough... chocolate milk? In one study they found that chocolate milk did better than (or as good as) all other sports/recovery drinks in helping people's muscles recover... very odd. Regular milk didn't do this, it had to be chocolate. However, apparently this study was partially funded by the dairy industry (ugh). Anyway, it is most appropriate for endurance athletes... since I happen to be both an endurance runner and swimmer I thought it was very interesting.

Anyway, if you're interested check it out:
http://www.fitnessmagazine.com/recipes/healthy-eating/superfoods/chocolate-milk-after-workout/
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/524370
http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20060224/chocolate-milk-new-sports-drink

I bought some chocolate soy milk, hopefully it will have the same benefits...?

[FitChick99]

From what I've read it is best to eat some combination of protein + carbohydrate within 30 minutes of working out. Supposedly the optimum ratio of protein to carb is 1:4... I've seen people recommend peanut butter + banana on whole grain bread, hummus + pita, and weirdly enough... chocolate milk? In one study they found that chocolate milk did better than (or as good as) all other sports/recovery drinks in helping people's muscles recover... very odd. Regular milk didn't do this, it had to be chocolate. However, apparently this study was partially funded by the dairy industry (ugh). Anyway, it is most appropriate for endurance athletes... since I happen to be both an endurance runner and swimmer I thought it was very interesting.

I bought some chocolate soy milk, hopefully it will have the same benefits...?

I agree, however, I've never heard it has to be chocolate milk. I would think the soymilk will have the same benefits, still has protein and carbs.

The thing is, yes, you need to refuel your body to help it recover, but you have to be careful not to negate the workout you just did. If you just did a moderate workout on the elliptical, or lifted some easy weights for 30 minutes, NO, you do NOT need to refuel.
BUT, if you ran for 6 miles, or lifted HEAVY weights, YES, it is important to refuel, most likely with just a small snack. Unless you ran a marathon or something (which you need to fuel through out), you don't need a full meal after your workout. The harder your workout, the more you need to refuel, but still, most people overdo it and are just adding unnecessary calories to their diet.

Just be careful not to use "refueling from your workout" as an excuse to eat more.

[Licence]

The harder your workout, the more you need to refuel, but still, most people overdo it and are just adding unnecessary calories to their diet.

Just be careful not to use "refueling from your workout" as an excuse to eat more.

Hi, my workouts are pretty intense, so what would you recommend?

I currently take a vegan protein shake after a workout, which is 150 calories and 36g protein, and also creatine and glutamine solutions dissolved in water. Should I also eat a banana or something like that?

[AussieShane]

Hi, my workouts are pretty intense, so what would you recommend?

I currently take a vegan protein shake after a workout, which is 150 calories and 36g protein, and also creatine and glutamine solutions dissolved in water. Should I also eat a banana or something like that?

After my workout, I mix the powders with oats. Oats is high in carbohydrates which increases muscle glycogen. So it is great for re-fuel.

Fructose doesn't increase muscle glycogen and it increases liver glycogen.
So i eat fruits in the morning as oppose to post-workout.

[Licence]

After my workout, I mix the powders with oats. Oats is high in carbohydrates which increases muscle glycogen. So it is great for re-fuel.

Fructose doesn't increase muscle glycogen and it increases liver glycogen.
So i eat fruits in the morning as oppose to post-workout.

Thanks. I'll try the oats in the shake and see how that goes.

Yes, I also try to eat fruit only in the morning, then a big salad for lunch, however if I'm working, one or sometimes both of these will get the chop.

PS. Is that you in your avatar? Very impressive. I've posted a couple of progress pics on my profile, I should do another one as the last was over half a year ago.

[innermusic]

hello, this is actually my first post on this board...so here we go.

i have heard a lot of conflicting info about weather or not vegetarians who do strenuous exercise should be getting extra protein from soy/whey protein shakes and haven't really been able to decide if i should be drinking them. i have in the past, but they taste bad, are kind of expensive, and didn't seem to do anything for me.

what do you guys/girls think about protein shakes and working out?

are there any other vitamins or supplements i should consider taking?

thanks
This strenuous exercise you refer to - is it resistance or endurance based?

[AussieShane]

Thanks. I'll try the oats in the shake and see how that goes.

Yes, I also try to eat fruit only in the morning, then a big salad for lunch, however if I'm working, one or sometimes both of these will get the chop.

PS. Is that you in your avatar? Very impressive. I've posted a couple of progress pics on my profile, I should do another one as the last was over half a year ago.

yep it's me. I saw your progress pics, good work man! you've lost a lot of body fat.

[AussieShane]

This strenuous exercise you refer to - is it resistance or endurance based?

but still not as ripped as this man :wall:

How you been Inner?

[sblthin]

but still not as ripped as this man :wall:


Haha Well if I saw you I'd think "Wow that guy looks ripped enough to repeatedly run his head into the wall" so even if you can't you still look like you could do it :P

[innermusic]

How you been Inner? Very well thanks. I'm into a new routine. If you're interested it's posted at http://vegetarianbodybuilder.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1478

[AussieShane]

Very well thanks. I'm into a new routine. If you're interested it's posted at http://vegetarianbodybuilder.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1478

ouch, that's a pretty hardcore routine man. I'd like to try it out sometime. Though I remember when I needed strength gain, I did a routine somewhat similar but not as much volume.

I lifted 4 days a week...

Monday / Thursday

Squats 6 x 6
Calf Raises 4 x 10
Weighted Dips 4 x 10
Bench Press 4 x 8

Tuesday / Saturday

Deadlifts 6 x 6
Wide Grip Pull ups 4 x failure
Preacher curls 5 x 10
Bent Over rows 4 x 10

Deadlifting the day after squatting was painful as hell. I gained ridiculous strength and a fair 10lbs from doing that routine. But my endurance / fitness seemed to get hit a bit since i was doing that routine for 8 weeks.

[Doktormartini]

Protein shakes are not really necessary because excess protein does not build muscle. You will do find just eating whatever you eat. Too much protein has negative impacts on your health!
http://www.dietitian.com/protein.html

"Weight lifters or body builders who want to cut muscle (show defined muscles in competitions) often get sucked into taking protein or amino acid supplements. These supplements do not build muscle and combined with an already high protein intake, often stress their kidney function."

[innermusic]

Protein shakes are not really necessary because excess protein does not build muscle. You will do find just eating whatever you eat. Too much protein has negative impacts on your health!
http://www.dietitian.com/protein.html

"Weight lifters or body builders who want to cut muscle (show defined muscles in competitions) often get sucked into taking protein or amino acid supplements. These supplements do not build muscle and combined with an already high protein intake, often stress their kidney function."

Let's forget that ridiculous unattributed quote, as well as the ignorant statements from that link you posted, and address your own statements.

The only way the body can store protein is through the synthesis of new muscle tissue, and it does this as part of its adaptation to resistance exercise. You are correct when you say that additional protein alone will not build muscle. If the body cannot use the protein it gets during the day, it converts it to glucose, and if the glucose cannot be used for energy, it gets stored as body fat. So... too much protein, just like any other calories, will make you fat! BUT... if the additional protein is combined with an overloading of existing muscle via resistance exercise, then new muscle tissue is the result. During this process of repair and protein synthesis, the body will build new muscle tissue IF additional amino acids are available. In this way, the body does utilize the additional protein intake. Without that additional protein, muscle growth will be restricted.

You are also correct when you say too much protein is unhealthy. But how do you define too much protein? Do you have a number of grams in mind? If so, you are already wrong. Someone who does regular weight training requires more protein than a sedentary individual, so there are no absolute numbers. But I will tell you that most people don't have a problem with too much protein - they have a problem with too LITTLE protein, and that goes especially for vegetarians. And the health problems associated with too little protein are very serious problems, as protein is involved in a myriad of biological functions in your body.

As for kidney function, there is NO RESEARCH that establishes a negative correlation between protein consumption and kidney function, ASSUMING HEALTHY KIDNEYS to begin with. All the research you'll find links pre-existing renal disease or dysfunction with protein.