These guys have been busy!

A fire that destroyed three homes under construction early Friday was the work of a radical environmentalist group, officials said. Investigators are also looking into a second fire at another construction site.


Full story...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/09/19/construction.fire.ap/index.html

I have to wonder, honestly, why a construction / contracting company doesn't just have an armed guard on duty overnight, and/or guard dogs, to protect from such criminal activity.

Robert, I'm positive that it's not a very economical practice to pay for an armed guard to watch a house while it's being built. The cost of it would become a large percentage of the cost of the house! This would only make sense if they knew in advance which buildings were being targeted.

I don't support these actions. I think there are betters ways to bring about change. I also think that in order to bring about lasting change we must do it in a peaceful way. Yet, this is weird to me, when I read the articles I feel a sense of excitement. It must be some human instinct... perhaps the same one that caused the Romans to get excited for the arena?

In any case, I take solace in knowing that I don't support it and would never do it. :)

Mikie, quite honestly... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which building sites are more probable targets than other ones. These idiots are targeting "expensive" homes and commercial building sites, ones that might be seen as extravagant.

If I had the coin to pay for a (muti?) million dollar home, I'd actually prefer to have a construction company who indeed had an armed guard to protect my interests during the construction phase, especially if it's in an area where these lowlifes are known to operate. Would I pay a bit extra for this added benefit of protecting my home against such possible criminal attack? Absolutely.

I'm pretty sure getting shot is an inappropriate punishment for trespassing or even arson for that matter.

If everyone got what he deserved we'd all be dead.

I'm pretty sure getting shot is an inappropriate punishment for trespassing or even arson for that matter.

I don't consider it inappropriate at all.

I should have mentioned that in my first post, and I'm not sure why I didn't because I was thinking what peebs said as well. I don't think that getting shot is justifiable under any means. I don't support the death penalty.

Robert, I doubt that you'll ever need to worry about building a multimillion dollar home (unless inflation gets really bad... :D) but don't you think that perhaps the people who burn these houses are right... that they shouldn't be built?

I should have mentioned that in my first post, and I'm not sure why I didn't because I was thinking what peebs said as well. I don't think that getting shot is justifiable under any means. I don't support the death penalty.

Robert, I doubt that you'll ever need to worry about building a multimillion dollar home (unless inflation gets really bad... :D) but don't you think that perhaps the people who burn these houses are right... that they shouldn't be built?

**** with me or mine, and I will shoot you. - Tame

If all goes well over the next 25 years, I would expect to retire in something in the neighborhood of a multi-million dollar home. I imagine the same is possibly true for Robert, except his would be in Canadian dollars, which would make it worth $73.45 in US currency. :D

And no, burning down property isn't right

To a certain extent it's relative. Mikie, someone might consider your home to be extravagant, does that give them the right to burn it down? I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just something to think about.

I apologize if my words weren't chosen well, Michael and Tame.

I definitely didn't mean to imply that they're right to burn them down, I thought I had made that clear in the first half. The only thing that I was insinuating that was correct was their belief that they shouldn't be built (I should point out that I haven't looked into these particular houses to see where they were built, how large they are, and how many resources they're consuming.) It's obvious Tame doesn't agree on this, but there aren't a whole lot of things that Tame and I do agree on.

A very large house is unsustainable because there is no way that everyone in the world could have one (unless the population dived.) I certainly don't believe that we all need or require the same things, and I do believe in personal freedom and allowing people to build whatever house they would like. At the same time, I don't see where someone feels that it is necessary, or even nice, to have such a big house. It's wasteful. Just like Michael said, houses are relative, and if you have a smaller house then you'd get just as used to it as if you had a larger house. So why not save building resources, building costs, and energy from heating and cooling it?

I should also point out that I feel that a big house with many residents is fine because of the people/resources ratio. Also, houses that are built with local resources, local hands, and use alternative sources of energy I feel can go larger than the average house, though I still feel that larger is unnecessary.

I don't consider it inappropriate at all.

Maybe you should move to Singapore.

Maybe you should move to Singapore.

I find it pretty humorous Peebs that you equate the freedom of protecting your property/family with China/communism.

Oh, and Tame... with our dollar getting a little stronger, it'll soon be worth $83.65 USD :D

If some breaks into your house with a knife and is going to kill you, then yeah blow his head off. Someone vandalizing an empty building is different. Shooting them isn't saving anyone's life. Sentencing someone to death for vandalism or trespassing is ridiculous. We have courts and police for a reason.

Last January some asshat egged my car. Should I have shot this person?

If some breaks into your house with a knife and is going to kill you, then yeah blow his head off. Someone vandalizing an empty building is different. Shooting them isn't saving anyone's life. Sentencing someone to death for vandalism or trespassing is ridiculous. We have courts and police for a reason.

Last January some asshat egged my car. Should I have shot this person?

I'd personally give someone a warning shot if I felt my family was in danger, or that my property was under attack, and do what i could to detain them until police arrived.

And I'd absolutely support any construction company hiring armed personnel to protect some development project I was involved with that is a high risk for attack by these scumbags.

If some breaks into your house with a knife and is going to kill you, then yeah blow his head off. Someone vandalizing an empty building is different. Shooting them isn't saving anyone's life. Sentencing someone to death for vandalism or trespassing is ridiculous. We have courts and police for a reason.

Yep, their purpose is to let me off when I cap some buttmunch trying to harm me or mine.

Last January some asshat egged my car. Should I have shot this person?

Yes, but only to wing them.

Not only would those trespassers get shot - there would be a long car chase before that. Screeeech.

They could hang signs up at the sites as a warning..

"If you try to burn it, we'll shoot your sorry asses."

Then they'd only have themselves to blame if they got shot.

They could hang signs up at the sites as a warning..

"If you try to burn it, we'll shoot your sorry asses."

Then they'd only have themselves to blame if they got shot.

Exactly. Kind of like my "Keep honking - I'm Reloading" bumper sticker. :D

ELF STRIKES AGAINST URBAN SPRAWL IN SAN DIEGO: FOUR HOUSES BURNED TO THE
GROUND
IN ACTION AGAINST "DEVELOPMENT DESTRUCTION"

For Immediate Release

CALIFORNIA - Through media reports, the ELF Press Office has been made aware
of
an Earth Liberation Front action against urban sprawl in the early morning
hours of September 19, 2003. Although the ELF Press Office has received no
communications about this action from the persons responsible, a banner
found
at the site of the fires reading "Development destruction. Stop raping
nature.
The ELFs are angry," indicates a claim of responsibility by ELF activists.
The
fires broke out at approximately 4 a.m. in the upscale Carmel Valley
neighbourhood of San Diego, California.

The fires took out four houses under construction in two parts of the
neighbourhood and caused an estimated $1 million in damages. This is the
fifth
action in 2003 against urban sprawl known to have been the work of the Earth
Liberation Front. Other occurences of ELF actions in response to the
encroachment of luxury housing on wild space since January 1st include fires
in
San Diego, California (August); Chico, California (June); Macomb County,
Michigan (June), and Superior Township, Michigan (April).

Although there has been no statement by ELF activists about the most recent
actions in San Diego, a communique sent after the fires in Macomb County
read
in part, "For too long, we, the people... have allowed our magnificent
forests
to be levelled and shipped off, our water to be poisoned and now, greed
driven
developers are trying to marginalize off the last green spaces and habitat
of
our unknown Edens." It is clear from past statements and recent actions of
the
ELF that urban sprawl has become a central issue in the struggle to protect
the
earth.

The Earth Liberation Front is an international underground organization that
uses direct action in the form of economic sabotage to stop the destruction
of
the natural environment. Since 1997, the ELF in North America has caused
over
$100 million in damages to entities who profit from the destruction of life
and
the planet.

Any communications received by the ELF Press Office will be forwarded on to
interested members of the press.

The Earth Liberation Front Press Office is an autonomous entity that serves
to
publicize news and actions of the ELF, as reported through news media or by
anonymous communications from the individuals involved in activities.

Just a mail I received....

BTW, Singapore is not in China, and is not communist.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sn.html

Oh, geez.... I guess I never paid close enough attention to your post, just skimming it quickly and got Shanghai in my head. And yeah, I already knew that Singapore was neither part of China nor was Communist. I really ought to start paying closer attention.