Dairy and eggs

[johnny8b]

My apologies if this has been asked before. I did search but I could not find anything specific.

I have been vegetarian for some weeks now and I am really enjoying it. I feel better for it (which may be in my mind as I am happier about what I eat) and I have not missed meat in any way (I do not eat fish, chicken, seafood or any derivitives like gelatin or stock).

I do however like cheese from time to time and occasionally use eggs (maybe 1 or 2 a month max). I have never liked milk.

I notice on the forum that many do not eat dairy or eggs and I am finding this element of vegetarianism more difficult to understand. The idea that meat = animal is easy to grasp but milk and eggs does not seem to be in the same category, but that may be due to lack of information on my part.

This is in no way meant to be inflamatory. My partner has been a vegetarian for 39 years and vegan for a month. She never ate eggs and she said dairy did not agree with her so it does not really answer my question.

Does milking a cow harm it in any way? :help:

[rabid_child]

The simple and not graphic answer is... Dairy cows aren't treated any better than cows for slaughter. They're still kept in small pens, hooked up to machines, and forced to overproduce milk. When they're no longer productive, THEY'RE sent to slaughter. Also, in order for cows to produce milk, the cow has to be pregnant, and the resulting calves support the veal industry.

[johnny8b]

hmmm.. thanks for the non graphic version. Something for me to think about

[muchluv]

well done for turning vegetarian.

As the previous poster said, the calves are sent for veal or just slaughtered I think. This is the same even with Organic/free range cows :'(

Also, for eggs, to get more laying hens they hatch some of the eggs, because of this some will obviously going to be male. The males are killed, and not in a very pleasent fashion (not that there would really be a pleasent fashion). And when those chickens stop laying so many eggs theyre killed too as far as I remember.

[dormouse]

Many vegans also believe that it is not our right as humans not to subjugate animals in anyway. Eggs and milk are not ours to take.

I don't personally share this view, but just throwing that out there.

[hoodedclawjen]

yeah, check out the vegan forum if you want more info. you can use the search function to find info on the egg and dairy industries, or just ask there. :)

[3LittleBirds]

Personally, if your veg*nism stems from animal rights' issues in any way I think you have to include dairy/eggs into it. These animals are not treated any better than ones who are raised for meat. In fact, that is usually their fate in the end anyway. As soon as they stop producing enough milk/eggs they are slaughtered. Watching some videos on the subject really opened my eyes. The vision I had of a dairy cow living happily on a farm grazing all day doesn't exist at all. I'm not currently vegan, but I have eliminated most dairy and egg from my diet due to this issue.

[xBree]

There's also the health aspect of it, as some people believe in the same way we're not natural meat eaters, our bodies are not designed to digest milk, eggs or any other animal products.

I think it's up to 70% of us that are lactose intolerant to some degree (me included)

[derwenna]

Apart from the fact that many animals used in milk and egg production are not well-treated during their lives, there is also a lot of killing involved in both industries.

Half of the chicks bred for egg production turn out to be male and therefore useless, they are usually gassed or minced alive at a day old. The hens are kept for about a year, worked so intensively that their egg production starts to decline after a year so they are then killed and new hens brought in to replace them. A hen's natural lifespan is 7 years.

Cows used for milk production have to have a calf every year to keep their milk levels up, most of the calves are either killed straight away or sold for veal, although some of the females might be kept to replace the worn-out cows in the dairy herd. The milk-producing cows themselves are kept until they are around five years old, by which time they are too worn out to produce high enough levels of milk and they too are killed. A cow's natural lifespan is 25 years.

[johnny8b]

Thank you all for the information at least I can understand the point of view now. As I said before this certainly gives me something to think about. Reading more on the forum it seems that the step to give up dairy and eggs is a difficult for others too, given their uses as a 'hidden' ingredient in so many things.

[hoodedclawjen]

:yes: i think while its something to keep in mind, and learn about, don't feel like you have to overwhelm yourself with it all at once. for lots of people its a natural progression, but one that happens in good time. better that than scrapping the whole thing cos you find yourself struggling to tread-water. :)

[skelly023]

For the past few days I've been wondering about this myself, and the possibility of going vegan. I think maybe I will try easing myself into it with the obvious things -- milk, cheese, eggs, yogurt, etc. -- and then learn to understand ingredients and other "hidden" possibilities better along the way. I want to be able to ease my mom into the idea of me going vegan as well, so for now I'm just putting "almond milk" on the grocery list and maybe a vegan brand of cheese so that we can both take the decision slowly. I'm just worried about really not enjoying some of the replacements and not figuring out what else to eat, but I'm sure with time it will become easier.

[hoodedclawjen]

For the past few days I've been wondering about this myself, and the possibility of going vegan. I think maybe I will try easing myself into it with the obvious things -- milk, cheese, eggs, yogurt, etc. -- and then learn to understand ingredients and other "hidden" possibilities better along the way. I want to be able to ease my mom into the idea of me going vegan as well, so for now I'm just putting "almond milk" on the grocery list and maybe a vegan brand of cheese so that we can both take the decision slowly. I'm just worried about really not enjoying some of the replacements and not figuring out what else to eat, but I'm sure with time it will become easier.

sounds like a plan. :up:

don't be afraid to ask for help if/when you need it. there are some really nice products out there if you know here to look, and you'd be suprised how quickly your tastebuds get attuned to different things.

[FitChick99]

If you actually want a visual, do a search for Earthlings on YouTube and watch it. Then you will see what happens to the animals with your own eyes. I watched it and will never forget it... But, I wanted to be fully informed about what I was getting into with going veg and why I was doing it.

[rabid_child]

Thank you all for the information at least I can understand the point of view now. As I said before this certainly gives me something to think about. Reading more on the forum it seems that the step to give up dairy and eggs is a difficult for others too, given their uses as a 'hidden' ingredient in so many things.

You know, this (and my indifference towards honey) is why I categorize myself as a "Really Good Vegetarian" and not a vegan. I don't buy dairy or egg products for myself, and don't order them when we're out, but I also don't ask if the bread had an eggwash, and don't flip out if something I've bought has whey as the second to last ingredient. I'm doing my best to reduce harm (and not get sick cause me and dairy don't get along anymore), but am not sweating the small stuff as I don't see it as something that greatly supports either industry. I don't need the vegan title. I'm comfortable with my choices, and I do this for me, not to have some label to show off to other people.

[skelly023]

You know, this (and my indifference towards honey) is why I categorize myself as a "Really Good Vegetarian" and not a vegan. I don't buy dairy or egg products for myself, and don't order them when we're out, but I also don't ask if the bread had an eggwash, and don't flip out if something I've bought has whey as the second to last ingredient. I'm doing my best to reduce harm (and not get sick cause me and dairy don't get along anymore), but am not sweating the small stuff as I don't see it as something that greatly supports either industry. I don't need the vegan title. I'm comfortable with my choices, and I do this for me, not to have some label to show off to other people.

:rockon: I like this

[brazilnut]

I think if you are trying your best to eat veggie you are still doing a good thing. Over time it will get easier to phase out the dairy/eggs if you choose. I say kudos to you!

[Abyssinian]

Hidden ingredients are really anoying. They do put whey and other weird stuff in the most surprising places.
Once you get used to reading labels and scanning them for certain things, it will be smooth sailing from there.
I try to avoid processed foods and packaged foods so I don't have to worry about hidden ingredients.
If the ingredients list is miles long, you probably shouldn't be eating whatever it is anyway.

[entre_mundos]

In every slice of cheese, there's a piece of veal.

[DgyJff]

yes, but I think it's important that everyone goes at their own pace. When I went vegetarian I felt guilty right off the bat for eating eggs and dairy but it was just too much too fast. If you go into it like that I think you're more likely to give up. I tried becoming vegan probably 5 times before I actually made the switch for good. So understand why eggs and dairy are bad and the benefits of being vegan, and when you're ready you'll know. And then go for it!

[veggiemeggie]

You know, this (and my indifference towards honey) is why I categorize myself as a "Really Good Vegetarian" and not a vegan. I don't buy dairy or egg products for myself, and don't order them when we're out, but I also don't ask if the bread had an eggwash, and don't flip out if something I've bought has whey as the second to last ingredient. I'm doing my best to reduce harm (and not get sick cause me and dairy don't get along anymore), but am not sweating the small stuff as I don't see it as something that greatly supports either industry. I don't need the vegan title. I'm comfortable with my choices, and I do this for me, not to have some label to show off to other people.

I'm the exact same way! :D

[entre_mundos]

I'm the exact same way! :D

Amen!